bwheeler1
New Member
Posts:40
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| 10 Apr 2008 02:49 PM |
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This is a great forum and I really appreciate the very helpful people here!
What are the best methods for waterproofing ICF below grade? I have heard of peel-and-stick products and paint-on products for the waterproofing. What do the experienced contractors use for the best performing waterproofing.
On a related topic, any opinions on waterproofing the footings before installing the ICF blocks?
With respect to mechanical protection for the ICF in backfilled areas, I have seen a dimpled plastic product that Arxx carries. It gets screwed in to the webs after the waterproofing is installed using special screws and washers. What are the best products for this application?
Thanks.
Brian.
P.S. Has anyone used Fastfoot? If so, what was your experience with it? I understand that it is supposed to waterproof the footings in addition to working as a form for the concrete. |
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bobgieser
New Member
Posts:33
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| 10 Apr 2008 06:02 PM |
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Brian:
First, most manufacturers of ICF blocks have a peal and stick (Bituthene?sp), some private labeled just for them. Some have a winter as well as a summer grade. Delta MS, Platen, etc make a dimple board that protects as well. Each contractor uses his own method and product. Personally I use the peal and stick on every job and those with extra high water tables, I add the dimple board. Some contractors just use the dimple board and never use the peal and stick and claim to never have a leaky problem with either method.
Fast Foot is great. We use it on every footer. I use it in conjunction with CertainTeeds Form-a-Drain. Of course, when you distribute both, that must mean that they either work, you sell alot of it, or people like it, some of the above or all of the above. We speck it on every job. When people TRUST you because you are good and have a good ICF Form, then selling the ancillary products is the value added reason for one stop shopping. Your ICF distributor should be teaching you about all of this stuff, not just the ICF form, in my opinion.
Thank you for letting me rattle on.
Bob Gieser
Holdfast Technologies (www.holdfast.com)
Master Distributors for Nudura ICF |
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| Bob Gieser<br>Sales and Technical Support<br>Holdfast Technologies<br>Master Distributor for Nudura ICFs<br>(916) 214-4398-cell |
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wes
Advanced Member
Posts:810
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| 11 Apr 2008 07:31 AM |
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Brian,
We use both peel and stick and dimple wrap on all our projects, (currently Miradri/Mirradrain). Along with lots and lots of drain tile and stone. Since we went to this process, no leaks.
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| Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected] |
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doctj
New Member
Posts:13
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| 11 Apr 2008 08:00 AM |
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Hi all
new to the forum. My builder who uses nudura only listed aquaseal in the spec sheet for waterproofing the icf basement. should he be doing more than that? Also I haven't seen any waterproofing of the footers, is that always necessary? |
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smartwall
Veteran Member
Posts:1209
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| 11 Apr 2008 09:58 AM |
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The only problem with most liquid waterproofing membranes. is that they are installed too thin. We sell mostly dimpled membrane it installs very fast and can be installed the same day as the pour. |
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bwheeler1
New Member
Posts:40
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| 11 Apr 2008 11:09 AM |
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From what I recall of the Arxx installation video, they recommended applying peel-and-stick and then installing the dimpled membrane over top to provide mechanical protection. The nice thing about the dimpled membrane was that it would allow water to drain away from the ICF because it maintained a space next to the wall. |
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Chris Johnson
Advanced Member
Posts:878
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| 12 Apr 2008 10:00 PM |
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Peel and stick is by far the easiest and most user friendly product out there, most DIY spray products are applied to thin or if the gaps in the block are not filled and cleaned it is a potential problem. ALL waterproofing methods should have some form of protection board placed against them prior to backfill...it is cheap insurance. |
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| Chris Johnson - Pro ICF<br>North of 49 |
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Chris Johnson
Advanced Member
Posts:878
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| 12 Apr 2008 10:02 PM |
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Oh, and as for fast foot, yes it works well too, check the price of that then check locally for the price of tyvek/typar. If needed I use tyvek simply easier to get since everyone has it locally. |
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| Chris Johnson - Pro ICF<br>North of 49 |
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Lana
New Member
Posts:7
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| 26 May 2008 11:26 PM |
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We had a house built in 2007, the builder used Arxx forms for the foundation. We have had leaks since October 2007 right up to today! All it takes is running a hose around the perimeter of the home for less than 10 minutes. We are at the point of trenching around the house, checking the weeping tiles, adding the bituthane and dimple paper.......any further suggestions? |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 27 May 2008 10:50 AM |
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Lana,
Can you find out from the builder what waterproofing methods he used on your home? I know you mentioned weeping tile but what else did the builder use? What was used for backfill? Do you have landscaping plants around the foundation? Are we talking about a basement here or a crawl space? |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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Lana
New Member
Posts:7
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| 27 May 2008 02:09 PM |
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Upon speaking to the builder this morning this is the info I have. Weeping tiles, gravel, and he used Soprema membrane. He did not use dimple paper because 'it is not reccommneded by the manufacturer." I spoke with an ARXX rep and he emailed me info and it is definitely reccommended. The builder has "patched" twice....and more leaks are coming in now! His next plan of action is to patch from the exterior and regarde the perimeter. Of course we are hesitate as we feel it is a bandaid solution. ARXX agrees. There is only dirt/ clay surrounding the house, which is 5 inches below the top off the membrane with no water pooling around the house. We would obviously prefer to trench it, check the tiles, add the dimple paper and new membrane. |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 27 May 2008 02:14 PM |
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Lana,
Something is not right here. No way should you be having that many leaks. By the way, did the ICF installer vibrate the walls while placing concrete? |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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bobgieser
New Member
Posts:33
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| 27 May 2008 02:36 PM |
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Are the gutters up yet and where are the downspouts directed, if any. Are the penetrations through the wall properly flashed. It may and probably is not the ARXX or another brand specific form. Sounds like building science technique or lack thereof.
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| Bob Gieser<br>Sales and Technical Support<br>Holdfast Technologies<br>Master Distributor for Nudura ICFs<br>(916) 214-4398-cell |
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Lana
New Member
Posts:7
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| 27 May 2008 03:37 PM |
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The eavstroughing spouts are as follows.......approx 4 ft away from house, 3 at the rear of house and one at the front. |
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Lana
New Member
Posts:7
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| 27 May 2008 03:43 PM |
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Apparently the walls were vibrated. I do believe that the forms are in proper condition.....we are thinking now that the dimple paper would have made a world of difference. |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 27 May 2008 04:10 PM |
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Lana,
Concrete with a decent PSI strength should not leak so much. I would hope that the ICF installer used at least a 4000 PSI mix that also possibly contained fly ash. With ICF forms a 4000 PSI mix will oftentimes test out even stronger provided that the installer did not water it down so much to get more slump. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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bobgieser
New Member
Posts:33
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| 27 May 2008 05:48 PM |
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I realize that this is after the fact, but as I was reading this last post, the sales rep for Penetron called me. It is a waterproofing agent that can be applied on a clean concrete wall or as an admix before the wall is poured.
FYI: www.penetron.com |
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| Bob Gieser<br>Sales and Technical Support<br>Holdfast Technologies<br>Master Distributor for Nudura ICFs<br>(916) 214-4398-cell |
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Lana
New Member
Posts:7
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| 27 May 2008 11:45 PM |
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I will ask what the PSI mix was. We have consulted with a waterproofing expert, concrete expert and now we have a meeting booked with a structural engineer this week. I am leaning towards obtaining another quote for the waterproofing for backup. |
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wes
Advanced Member
Posts:810
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| 28 May 2008 07:39 AM |
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Lana,
I am assuming you have a basement. Correct?
Is it a walk out or completely in ground? If it is walkout, where do the drain tiles come to the surface and are they open and working? If in ground, is there are sump pump system in place?
Is it finished?
Are the leaks in specific spots or widespread? Do they move from time to time?
Are the leaks at floor level only?
Is there any type of drainage system under the floor slab?
The problem with clay soils is that they don't drain well. Your poblems could be caused by hydrostatic pressure pushing groundwater up under the slab, through the cold joints between the floor and wall, and into the basement.
This is a common problem in my part of the country. If this is your problem, no amount of work on the walls alone, will totally solve your leaks. |
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| Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected] |
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Lana
New Member
Posts:7
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| 28 May 2008 01:05 PM |
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The basement is full underground, it is drywalled but no flooring as of yet. (thankfully) The leaks appear in repeat areas as well as new locations throughout the basement. They come from the top and trickle down. I will take pics of the exterior and a video of how quickly it comes through. |
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