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dmaceld
Registered Users
Posts:461
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| 04/30/2008 12:05 AM |
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When I set the blocks for the first part of the wall from footing to floor the blocks on one wall were in a snake sort of line. This was largely due to the 2 x 4s I used to brace the top of the wall. This section was only 3 courses high and I agreed with my ICF supplier & consultant that the use of ICF bracing wasn't necessary nor cost justified for a 3 course high wall. I opted to use 2 x 4s to hold the wall in line because it was quite flexible even though it was foamed to the footing. I failed to recognize how crooked the wall was even though I took a photo of it before we poured the concrete. See the first photo. (I hope they're in order.) The wall was up to about 1/4" out of alignment in each direction.
But, I came up with a fix that I want to share. I cut a groove between the two rows of nubbins on the bottom edge of the block. See the groove photo. This enabled me to move the blocks laterally up to 1/4" to bring them in line with the string. The offset photo shows the upper course of blocks offset from the one below.
The last photo shows how much straighter the wall is now. I do have to deal with the waviness of the 3" of wall near the floor, but that should be well hidden by rasping and covering with sheet rock and baseboard. On the outside it will be near grade level so should not be particularly noticeable.
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Building house - what a way to spend retirement! |
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dmaceld
Registered Users
Posts:461
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| 04/30/2008 12:06 AM |
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Fourth photo.
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Building house - what a way to spend retirement! |
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gregj
Registered Users
Posts:153
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| 05/01/2008 12:38 PM |
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I'm no pro but when I did my 4 foot high section I just used straight 2x4s along the top edge and perpendicular 2x4s with turnbuckles every 4 to 6 feet. Crank the turnbuckles to bring it all to the string line. Be sure to check immediately after the pour to make sure nothing moved and readjust the turnbuckles if needed to bring it back to the string.
The bottom row should be tight to straight 2x4s tapcon screwed to the footing so there should be no snaking there.
If you're getting a lot of snaking you might have the forms too long for the actual wall length. |
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25 years GREEN
Registered Users
Posts:2
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| 05/01/2008 2:36 PM |
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There are actually ICF systems available that need very little bracing, and remain straight and plumb on ten and twelve foot high walls. A wall that takes the amount of extra excess work which you describe has a major design problem. An excellent strategy is to inspect a few projects and determine which ICF systems work, and which ones don't. Adding "An ICF that is simple to maintain level and plumb walls" criteria to your decision making process prior to purchasing any ICF would seem to make economical cents.
"Just like people, some ICFs work and some don't." |
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dmaceld
Registered Users
Posts:461
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| 05/01/2008 10:40 PM |
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Posted By gregj on 05/01/2008 12:38 PM
I'm no pro but when I did my 4 foot high section I just used straight 2x4s along the top edge Ahh, the key word is straight. The 2 x 4s delivered to me were 20' foot long, and many were not straight. I used them along the top edge. I didn't have time to send them back for better ones. The crooked 2 x 4s partially caused the problem. And I had had to do a bunch of shimming and shaving the bottom of the block and in the process failed to get it plumb. Once it was foam glued to the footing it was there to stay. I think too in this case the "chicken ladder" walkway we had over the wall may have been twisting the wall and we didn't recognize it. Also, the duct tape I had on the top of the form hid some of the irregularity when compared to the string line. We did do some additional side bracing to straighten it out but obviously not enough. The crookedness was caused by a combination of issues, as is usually the case when anything goes wrong. It's seldom one reason only.
I thought about buying 18' or 20' steel studs. I kind of wish I would have even though I don't know how much more costly they would have been. Those would have been straight.
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Building house - what a way to spend retirement! |
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irnivek
Registered Users
Posts:260
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| 05/01/2008 10:48 PM |
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dmaceld:
there are no perfect trees, but many perfect cabinets...
nice work problem solving, posting your pictures. |
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dmaceld
Registered Users
Posts:461
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| 05/01/2008 11:42 PM |
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Posted By 25 years GREEN on 05/01/2008 2:36 PM
A wall that takes the amount of extra excess work which you describe has a major design problem. This is a one time DIY project with long distance assistance by the distributor. This problem really can't be attributed to block design. It was pretty much of my own making as I describe above. We have 3 courses of the main wall done now and it's looking good. It's staying pretty straight and the interlocking of the blocks is keeping them quite level. I'm expecting the finished wall to look d*** good!
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Building house - what a way to spend retirement! |
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James Eggert
Registered Users
Posts:994
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| 05/03/2008 10:31 AM |
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"This problem really can't be attributed to block design. It was pretty much of my own making as I describe above...."
And I agree that anyone could make any block made appear to be a bad product when not paying attention. Yes, we do know that "some" products are less than stellar in their use, but solving the issues as you do the work is the sign of someone concientious enough to want to do right..Good Job handling a problem!!!
"A wall that takes the amount of extra excess work which you describe has a major design problem....
I suggest you join the real world of ICFs, and not purport that some particular product may be the saviour of us all!! nuff said!
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Take Care
Jim
Design/Build/Consulting
"Not So Big" Design Proponent |
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OKBlocker
Registered Users
Posts:635
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| 05/05/2008 10:16 AM |
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Next time try some "K" lock. (I think there's other names for this stuff)
This is the reinforcing used in concrete block walls.
Lay it flat in the top of the wall after your last piece of horizontal rebar is in place.
The 8" "K" lock fits snuggly inside the 6" ICF and adds a rigidity to the top course. |
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25 years GREEN
Registered Users
Posts:2
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| 05/05/2008 3:25 PM |
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My mistake for saying the block had a "major design problem" when I should have worded it less roughly. However, I do agree with Mr. Eggert when he states, "some are less than stellar". I do feel bad for folks that spend the time and money for wood ladders along the top and bottom of the wall, have to shim between bracing and wall, and have to grind off foam that is sticking out when they shouldn't have to - sometimes it is the installers mistake, and sometimes it is an inherent situation common to the ICF used. I'm not sure why Mr. Eggert felt the need to be nasty rather than just posting his opinion. I still maintain that folks should shop for an ICF system that works well since, as Mr. Eggert notes, "some are less than stellar in design. This is also my opinion, after having used most of the products available over the last 19 years. I would suggest that with 19 years experience I have joined "the real world of ICFs", and am not purporting "that some particular product may be the savior of us all!!!". I do use more than one ICF product, but I prefer to choose the one's that work well. I hope for the DIYers sake that they choose one that also works well.
"Just like contractors, some ICFs give you a great job and some don't"
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James Eggert
Registered Users
Posts:994
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| 05/06/2008 8:22 PM |
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Green
OK, I think you also have very valid comments especially as noted about some products inadequacies.
What you see as nasty, was rather an attempt to stave off what I expected was going to be a second post from someone about an ICF which is the best thing since sliced bread. You see, its unusual for any of us to expound on any particular product, yet, as you said, we all have our favorite brand(s).
All in all, I think we do a pretty good job of helping without each of us pushing the hype of any particular product we may either use or simply have an interest in. I will give you credit for explaining your use of many brands, and at the same time did not feel the need to name one. Of course sometimes we all get into a thread where names fly like mad, but I believe we all know each product "can" get to the end result, it's just that sometimes that trail is a little rough!
I would appreciate your continuing to post to these boards as many opinions will get to a sane answer, hopefully explaining issues to those unfamiliar with ICFs, and sometimes just unfamilair with construction in general. Those who are sold the "just stack and pour" ideal need our help! |
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Take Care
Jim
Design/Build/Consulting
"Not So Big" Design Proponent |
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Farmboy
Registered Users
Posts:124
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| 05/06/2008 8:54 PM |
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Nice summation, Jim.
For Dmaceld: In one of your threads you mentioned you will post photos of your project to ownerbuilderbook.com yet? If so how do we find you there? Dave |
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richntiff
Registered Users
Posts:28
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| 05/07/2008 11:26 AM |
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| Would someone care to PM me the brands that they DO like? :-) |
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James Eggert
Registered Users
Posts:994
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| 05/07/2008 8:18 PM |
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rich
probably not, but only because we don't know where you live, and in general, shipping in a product which may very well be so similar to what is available in your area would make that selection more costly for you. Many blocks have similar characteristics in the hands of a good installer.
But, if you do a search and read-thru on the ICF forum, there are threads where we talk about favorite brands based on where we live!
There are a lot of good brands out there, remember how important technical service is, especially if you or your contractor are new to ICFs! |
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Take Care
Jim
Design/Build/Consulting
"Not So Big" Design Proponent |
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