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Ebuilder
Registered Users
Posts:4
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| 07/03/2008 3:46 PM |
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| I am considering taking on an ICF Distributorship for my Area. All my ICF slabs are stained and polished before the wall system is erected. All the ICF companies I have been speaking with recommends bracing from the inside which is not a possibility due to my slabs. I will have to brace from the outside which is difficult due to Limestone being 5"-10" from the surface which will make bracing a labor intensive process. Can anyone recommend a solution to my problem? Will have have issues bracing from the outside? |
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Chris Johnson
Registered Users
Posts:304
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| 07/03/2008 7:11 PM |
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Why are the slabs stained prior to the rest of the house being built? This is like painting drywall before installing it. All the trades working on a finished slab have a potential to damage it.
FWIW I drill 3/16 holes in slabs to attach my braces, 2 days after I remove them the holes are difficult to find...by the time the staining is done (at a future date) they can't be found unless you are actually looking and tring to find them
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Chris Johnson - Pro ICF
Napa, CA
Come for the wine, Stay for the ICF work |
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SoCalScott
Registered Users
Posts:33
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| 07/03/2008 11:20 PM |
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First off - if you are a contractor, be careful of becoming a "distributor" for one product....it some areas it will cut off all leads from other ICF brands distributors/manufacturers...decreasing installation revenue Make an extra $2500 on one project but lose much more than that on other potential installation projects.
Second, I agree with Chris....why are slabs stainned before walls are erected? I have seen (1) slabs poured, walls erected, then slab stained OR (2) footings poured, walls erected, then slab poured - in an effort to reduce potential damage to slab.
I have seen walls braced w/ ICF bracing from the outside for "below grade" applications where they only 3 to 4 feet to work with. Remember, just like other construction trades there are several ways to skin a cat, or squirrel, or what ever you like. The turnbuckles for most systems are adjustable, so my recommendation os to get a hold of a couple of pieces of bracing from a local source (rent, borrow etc.) and see what their capabilities are. Things in the job site don;t have to look like the brochures, they need to be effective and get the job done correctly. give me a call & I can try to send you photos. 805-218-2254
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irnivek
Registered Users
Posts:260
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| 07/04/2008 9:26 AM |
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We routinely brace to the outside. There is no problem with this method, in fact it helps with outside corners during the pour. Often you can stack the block and use rolling scaffold from the concrete floor on the interior. In areas of rock/pit run gravel where staking the turnbuckles is a problem, we use 2 by lumber (the next jobs' window bucks) on flat grade, and just wood screw the turnbuckles to the boards laying on the ground, and use our trackhoe to dump a few buckets of dirt at 14 ft. intervals/where the board splices/corners are.
The same is used on the concrete finished floors if you wish. By the time all the boards on the ground are screwed to bracing and to each other, they have no ability to go anywhere....
Kevin |
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billnaegeli
Registered Users
Posts:17
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| 07/05/2008 9:46 PM |
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wow are you guys for real, you actually don't know how to fasten your bracing to a slab inside the house, we do houses with concrete floors on all levels....any body who knows the secret want to give it up? i will be it ain't for free!! p.s. yes w/o holes. All the IntegraSpec installers know about it.
haha i love this forum
p/s/ anybody completed a pool with icf yet ... i mean with water in it ? got a question too!
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Bov Gieser
Registered Users
Posts:2
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| 07/05/2008 10:55 PM |
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Yes we are for real. Nice talk: "I willl be it, ain't for free!!" Common now!! A modicum level of decorum is requested here!!
EBuilder:
Actually the previous posts were thoughtful in that every trade who walks on the slab if it is not protected (and it will be hard to protect it if done that early in the job), will mess it up.
There are always tricks to the trade. We can brace from the outside, no problem. Pre-tentioned ( Arizona desert) slabs require no drilling in slab for bracing (or anything for that matter).
Respectfully,
Bob Gieser
ICF distributor
South Central Kentucky
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wes
Registered Users
Posts:339
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| 07/06/2008 9:26 AM |
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billnaegeli,
I hope you aren't this big a smart*** with your customers, because if you are, you should start looking for another profession.
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Wes Shelby
Design Systems Group
Murray KY
wandr@ainweb.net |
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billnaegeli
Registered Users
Posts:17
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| 07/06/2008 5:59 PM |
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| ok sorry for upsetting you , all the hill billies i grew up with had a sense of humor! i guess things are different now, no it isn't pretensioned no holes no gimmicks we been doing inside bracing on slabs for the last 8 years alot of our floors have radiant tube in them so you CAN'T put anything in the floor...i know i am not the only one who knows how this is done? again who is your local IntegraSpec Rep? |
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Farmboy
Registered Users
Posts:124
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| 07/06/2008 10:55 PM |
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billnaegeli,
I've read techniques posted by some of the experts here that range from using deadheads to keep bracing in place, wood studs reaching to opposite walls, and even some variety of adhesive; all to keep from drillin' holes in the concrete floor. I'm confident they know how to approach these situations and were willing to share them. So, please share your technique with us all. My wife and I are planning to have radiant heat in a slab on grade and will stain/stamp the concrete as a finish floor. So I'm really interested in protecting the slab. Thanks for your contribution in advance. Dave |
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MDiver
Registered Users
Posts:26
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| 07/06/2008 11:20 PM |
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Posted By billnaegeli on 07/05/2008 9:46 PM
wow are you guys for real, you actually don't know how to fasten your bracing to a slab inside the house, we do houses with concrete floors on all levels....any body who knows the secret want to give it up? i will be it ain't for free!! p.s. yes w/o holes. All the IntegraSpec installers know about it.
haha i love this forum
p/s/ anybody completed a pool with icf yet ... i mean with water in it ? got a question too!
shoot me an email
Bill, why do you feel like you can come to this site to read any information that we freely give up, but then think that you should be compensated for your knowledge. By the way I have completed a pool (with water in it) and learned some valuable things along the way. Why don't you go ahead and spill your secretrs first. |
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billnaegeli
Registered Users
Posts:17
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| 07/09/2008 6:15 AM |
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| if you want the answer to your question, give me an email its not a secret, we do alot of icf construction. |
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Paul Stevens
Registered Users
Posts:119
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| 07/09/2008 8:49 PM |
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If it is not a secret, just post your way of doing it right here, why should we all have to e-mail you? The whole idea of this site is to help each other out and make the industry better as a whole, not just one by one, come on, lets have it!!
Paul Stevens |
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Aaron McKinney
Registered Users
Posts:43
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| 07/10/2008 7:26 PM |
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About your situation. I prefer putting the braces on the outside of the structure at all means possible, unless it is a tall wall job with a system scaffold type of scaffolding. For me, it creates a more organized atmosphere and makes more room for materials and mobility. Also on pour day there are several advantages with running your cords for your vibrator, having a coordinator in the middle that can keep everyone on the same page (pumper, guy on the hose, vibrator, client, tec..). One disadvantage I can think of is having to crawl through the shoring every time you want to go in and out.
I have seen contractors that laid drywall over the slab to keep it protected through out the construction process. I don't know how much drywall is going for at this time, so that could be costly.
There was a time for me when I could not brace on one side of the home I was building and we absolutely could not drill into the concrete so our remedy was to keep our braces parallel to each other as much as possible and run 2x6 from one side of the house to the other and screw into that. For me, that felt kind of hill billy (and guys if you remember, this was the same job that I took the guard off my swazall and used it as a vibrator on the walls), but it worked and everything came out plumb and lined as supposed to. |
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