ICF Wall Prep for Interior and Exterior Finishes
Last Post 19 Sep 2009 08:07 AM by James Eggert. 12 Replies.
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bwheeler1User is Offline
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10 Aug 2008 10:49 PM
Is there a good reference for installing vinyl siding on ICF blocks? We have Nudura. For example, how do we install the inside and outside corners for the siding since the webs are vertical every 8" and there is a very good chance there will be no web at the right place on/in the corner.

We have a brick ledge for the front of the house. Should we plan for brick ties in addition to the brick ledge?

With respect to interior finishes, is there a way to prepare in advance for installing window treatments (e.g. curtain rods)?

What about attaching trim? Do we just nail to the casing? Is there something else we should plan to do before the drywall goes up? Alternatively, do we use some kind of adhesive to attach the trim to the drywall in addition to nailing to the casing?

We have one window where the rough opening is quite a bit larger than the window. As a result, there is a significant void on one side of the window. Should we just fill the void with minimal-expanding foam or should we do something else to reduce the amount of the foam needed?

Also, will a stud finder be able to identify the webs once the drywall is on?

Our ICF installer has handed the house off to us and we are trying to get the prep work done over the next 2 weeks ahead of the drywaller.

Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Brian.
irnivekUser is Offline
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10 Aug 2008 11:27 PM
Please post your installer and or distributor info so we can chastise them for only doing a small portion of their job, the stacking and pouring portion. Normally Nudura prides themselves on not dumping block and letting the consumer deal with the loose ends. Your installer should know that if they make the rest of the job simpler for you by addressing these questions, the chance of a referral/repeat sale is greatly increased. Many of these questions can be answered also from the Nudura installation guide, with pictures....Did they provide you with this?

You can strip foam and install wood blocking with tapcons for siding backing if you have to, or rasp foam off the webs and screw/foam glue plywood corners on.

Pay extra attention to flashing/waterproofing your brickledge, weep holes as per code and no veneer below grade. Your mason should screw brick ties to the webs at least.

"Butterfly" nail your brad nails through the drywall; Two nails close together at opposing angles, with or without adhesive behind.

In hurricane areas 1/4 inch max. gap is acceptable oversize for windows. So fur out the buck and caulk the sandwich to deter air infiltration.

Depends on your stud finder you can locate them.

You can install metal flashing on the foam behind the drywall or wood blocking as backing for the wall treatments; or use expansion fasteners but usually they will not be aesthetically pleasing for finished product.

Kevin
bwheeler1User is Offline
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11 Aug 2008 06:40 AM
It's a long story...

The short version is, the installer (somewhat reluctantly) picked up someone else's project and did a very good job from what was a pending disaster. The other guy was in over his head and left a mess.

My intent was to pick up the project from the closed to weather stage and take care of the rest. I'm now just getting into the details of finishing and was looking for more information than what is readily available.

I could be at at least partly fault for choosing to go this route. The first installer was going to help with organizing the details but he abandoned the project. I didn't have that arrangement with my present installer.

Brian.

James EggertUser is Offline
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11 Aug 2008 09:30 PM
Then call Nudera and ask that one of their reps helps with the details. Literally every question should have been answered for you. I understand the second installer saved the project, but someone has to help you with your normal ICF questions!

I agree with Kevin, perhaps if we knew where you were we could have an old time lynching :-)

Some quick notes,
Curtain rods, use the ss mesh clips under the drywall, if you are in the NE, I'll sell you a half box I have.
corner boards- different techniques, a little more forum searching will give you some examples(I'm not that aware of the Nudera blocks. You say vinyl siding....check into windows that have the j-channel built into the exterior window trim, tou can even order windows with the exterior casing on, AND still get the j-channel...real time saver.
large window area- fill the void with solid piecse of 2" eps from the lumber yard, NOT BEADBOARD!
some stud finder do, some don't(but should)
vinyl siding- some use vertical furring, some attach direct with either screws or ring shank nails. I cannot say whether rs nails will work for your appliacation. We nail off hardiPlank siding all the time without furring.

where are you located?
considering you are now your own GC, who is setting up the requirements for your hvac? what about after the fact deck ledgers, how about roof anchoring(high winds?), and the list goes on.

I still think everyone can get lots of good info from any of the VanderWerf books, such as "Insulating Concrete Forms for residential design and construction.
Take Care<br>Jim<br><br>Design/Build/Consulting<br>"Not So Big" Design Proponent
robinncUser is Offline
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11 Aug 2008 10:55 PM
bwheeler, ck out this site for what you will need to install baseboard, trim, curtain rods, etc.


http://www.windlockinteriors.com/public/icf/icf_interior_solutions.asp


James EggertUser is Offline
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12 Aug 2008 08:30 AM
windlock is a good source for ICF products, however, they typically have been for contractors/professionals only.

Advise your contractor to purchase the products for your project!
Take Care<br>Jim<br><br>Design/Build/Consulting<br>"Not So Big" Design Proponent
dlewisUser is Offline
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16 Sep 2009 01:14 PM
Outside Parging- Any moisture concerns, can trapped moisture evaporate thru Parging coat
dwangleUser is Offline
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16 Sep 2009 02:57 PM
I am a distributor for Nudura, and would agree that you need to get in touch with the distributor that sold you the block. That is what we are here for. Where are you located?
ICF for life
DallasBillUser is Offline
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17 Sep 2009 01:04 PM
RE: "With respect to interior finishes, is there a way to prepare in advance for installing window treatments (e.g. curtain rods)?"

Here's what we did for every window, before the sheet rock went up, just so we would always know.  We picked a reference point on each side of every window -- generally the glass edge -- and measured out to the center of the first plastic web strip and recorded that in our project notebook.  That then gives us the centers of every plastic web right across the entire wall, for whatever we want to do in future, for any place on any wall!

Specifically for curtain rods, we don't have any.
Light_GreenUser is Offline
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18 Sep 2009 10:10 AM

I will be installing 3/4 tongue and groove pine boards horizontally over my ICF walls. Can the 8" O.C. webbing be nailed into with air driven staples or finish nails or is screwing the only option? I could screw furring strips vertically every other web 16" O.C. I suppose but now my T&G wall surfaces are at least 1 1/2" proud of the ICF foam.  I'm thinking if I go this route why not use 2 X 4's on the flat and shallow electrical boxes so that I don't have to penetrate the ICF foam with wiring channels etc. Of course now my walls will end up being 15 3/4" exclusive of exterior finish thickness. This presents a challenge for my exterior door trim to say the least.

Any suggestions?

Green is good, if it saves Green Backs. Re-use as much as possible. waste not want not. <br><br>2 people living in a 6,000 SQ FT Green built house with an 8k fridge is NOT GREEN!<br><br>If it's worth doing, it's worth doing it right.
wesUser is Offline
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18 Sep 2009 02:03 PM
I am assuming that you intend to blindnail through the tongue of the boards.
That being said, my only concern would be to make sure that your boards do not align with the horizontal seams so that you have no web to nail into. Otherwise, I doubt you would have any problems with 1 3/4" or 2" finish nails holding your boards in place.
Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected]
Light_GreenUser is Offline
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18 Sep 2009 08:05 PM

Yes, I will definitely blind nail the T&G.

Good point, I didn't think about the horizontal seams. I really think using 2 X 6's ripped in half placed 16" O.C.  will allow me to not have to auger out the very foam that I'm paying a premium for. The loss of 1 1/2" will be a small price to pay for not penetrating the insulation envelope plus the ease of electrical installation is a bonus. A 2" deep box will fit with room to spare i.e. 1 1/2" + 3/4" leaves a 1/4" to spare behind each box.  I do not hand nail anything if I can help it. IMHO The nail gun is the best invention since sliced bread was invented. 

Green is good, if it saves Green Backs. Re-use as much as possible. waste not want not. <br><br>2 people living in a 6,000 SQ FT Green built house with an 8k fridge is NOT GREEN!<br><br>If it's worth doing, it's worth doing it right.
James EggertUser is Offline
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19 Sep 2009 08:07 AM
Personally, I think you're complicating your installation and your life. I installed T&G directly onto the foam and used both a small crown stapler and a brad gun, you could also use a 16g finish gun.

We also added a glue line with construction adhesive which helped.

We did the complete interior of a castle/house, walls and ceilings, and adding a nailing strip is a waste of time. However, I suggest you try a small section installed, without adhesive, and see how the pull-out effort is with your particular block. If you shop around for T&G, you can buy it in pallets, inordinate amount of linear footage, I don't even remember how much, but we used 9 pallets, and stopped at the yard to buy more as we needed it. We used a product called "Pine roofer" which is somewhat rustic, but the price at the time was something like .34 a foot. Cheap but good product.

It is important to prestain if you are going to use a colored stain because depending on the climate, it may seasonally move some, showing the unstained tongue.

As to worrying about removong a small section of foam for the electrical boxes, there are more than enough threads here already discussing it. In general, installing your typical 4"x4" electrical boxes, tapconned into the concrete, is not going to be a heat loss issue.

Worry about the other parts of the envelope!!
Take Care<br>Jim<br><br>Design/Build/Consulting<br>"Not So Big" Design Proponent
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