jriddle
Registered Users
Posts:1
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| 08/28/2008 5:39 PM |
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| Looking for some input on best practice methods to hang cabinets (kitchen, utility, bathrooms, etc.) onto an ICF wall. All input and suggestions are very much appreciated. |
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Paul Stevens
Registered Users
Posts:143
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| 08/28/2008 7:15 PM |
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Have your cabinet guy come and mark out on the ICf where all cabinets will go, then measure in 1 inch or so and screw 3/4 inch plywood to cover the whole area, use lots of screws!!! every so often use 6" Tap cons and attach right to the concrete. Have drywall guys finish to the ply. Then you can screw cabinets to the ply when ready. I would also suggest a few tap cons in them as well, (don't want the wife's fancy china smashing on the floor. you will need to do some finish work around the sides since the drywall/sheetroc, is on 1/2 inch.
Another way is to cut out the ICF in 2 strips where the cabinets will go and attach 2x material plus 1x or ply to make up the width of the foam and attach with lag bolts or tapcons. then attach cabinets to that>
Good luck
Paul Stevens |
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woulfcc
Registered Users
Posts:185
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| 08/28/2008 7:30 PM |
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You had me at 6" tapcons,
Simple, always works, will not let you down. |
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Changing how the world BUILDS!
One build at a time.
Woulf c.c. |
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Buntly
Registered Users
Posts:95
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| 08/29/2008 7:01 AM |
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I typically route a 1.5"deep x 3.5" wide groove. Tapcon a 2x4 in groove with tapcons, install drywall, then you have a continuous attachment point. Many times attaching directly to the ties is fine.
Bunt |
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Terry Hale
Registered Users
Posts:1
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| 08/29/2008 9:09 AM |
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| I like the 3/4" plywood option but I use Simpson's 1/2 of the ICFLC ledger system to attach the plywood directly to the concrete. Follow the directions for inserting the Simpson's prior to concrete placement. Fast and strong. |
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Paul Stevens
Registered Users
Posts:143
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| 08/29/2008 8:19 PM |
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Terry, never thought of that. Sounds like a great way to do it>
Paul Stevens |
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ICFconstruction
Registered Users
Posts:81
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| 09/02/2008 6:45 PM |
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| I have had many cabinet guys screw only to the ties. I would use plywood screwed to ties and some PL300. tapcons are unneeded. |
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ICFconstruction.net |
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FlaICF
Registered Users
Posts:168
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| 09/05/2008 9:49 AM |
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| Layout cabinets, baseboards, trims , etc. Apply 1/2' ply to walls with screws and a little adhesive foam. 1/2' drywall will butt to the ply. Apply fibermwsh tape and compound to the joint to seal and you are ready. |
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Cattail Bill
Registered Users
Posts:246
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| 09/05/2008 7:40 PM |
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| Depends on the form you are using, some have 65lb pullout strength (tested) some have 96lb pulout strength (tested) which is the same as wood, and some but very few have tested pullout strength into the 200lb. |
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woulfcc
Registered Users
Posts:185
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| 09/06/2008 10:57 PM |
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Heres the deal,
Why would you do extra work?
Time is money and we all hear about icf is more money, but you recommend doing extra work to a job that is so simple.
We have used concrete anchors to hang cabinet's bathroom partitions what ever for years and years in schools, hospitals. ext. Commercial projects.
Now we get paid good money in commercial work full scale not residential pay , we need to get it done right and only touch it once and have it last in a very demanding environment.
A tapcon is so easy to use and it will always work in concrete any were in in icf wall.
No blocking lay out and install for the rocker and tapere to work around and add to the bid.
You guys are not getting the simplicity of a solid wall, you get up to 900 lbs. per tapcon. Try the 1/4" X 6" this will span the 2-1/2" of foam and 1/2" of drywall with out bending(also drill up at 15 Deg. ) this will need a bigeger counter sink hole but it still will be abel to be covered like all the other skrews.
The ange will also give you the ability to shim in and out with up and down adj.
By the way have you tryed the star bit tapcons ( nice no caming out like phillips bit)
What the hell is easy than that! It just works all the time and almost any part of the wall with no preplaning.
Give it a try befor you get all up it your head about it.
We are not hanging a floor off of this, so you do not need an eng. to get in this.
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Changing how the world BUILDS!
One build at a time.
Woulf c.c. |
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Paul Stevens
Registered Users
Posts:143
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| 09/07/2008 10:22 AM |
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| Problem being the 2 1/2 inches of foam between cabinet and concrete, same reason that engineers want you to cut out foam to have concrete flush with ledger board when you hang floor with a/b's. |
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robinnc
Registered Users
Posts:115
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| 09/07/2008 11:26 PM |
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Paul,
Woulf said he wasn't hanging floors off of this.....just cabinets. I'm fairly new to all of this.....basically newbie....and trying to learn all I can......why would you need to do what you said just for cabinets?
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ReadyToRetire
Registered Users
Posts:195
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| 09/08/2008 4:54 PM |
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robinnc,
Try a simple experiment:
Take several pieces of 1X or 2X stock and fasten them together tightly with one *long* screw (use a nail if you don't have a long screw), but make sure that the ends are NOT in line. Take a hammer and try to drive the pieces vertically into the ground hitting just the end. Eventually the stock will split around the screw.
Do the same thing only leave the boards 1 1/2 to 2 inches apart. Now hammer one end and see what happens.
That's why you don't want to leave space between the support and the cabinet; you want them to be in direct contact. Yes, the foam will take some of the load; no, it won't be as strong with the foam there.
Good luck,
Larry
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billnaegeli
Registered Users
Posts:17
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| 09/08/2008 8:19 PM |
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| we do the plywood, but lay up a 2x4 to set the cabinets on temporarily, while you draw out where the cabinets are located and hang the plywood yeah alot of screws are good use some foam-to-foam as well, but if you have to tapcon the plywood you are using the wrong ICF blocks, we do finish work and i would never tapcon thru the cabinets. just my experience. |
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Paul Stevens
Registered Users
Posts:143
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| 09/08/2008 10:13 PM |
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Robinnc, when you put all of your fancy china and glasses in those cabinets they sure do weigh a lot. When there is the 2 1/2 inch space between the concrete and the back of the cabinet there is a possibility (all be it a small one) that the cabinet could sag because the foam does not support that part of the tapcon. Make sense???
Paul |
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Paul Stevens
Registered Users
Posts:143
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| 09/08/2008 10:15 PM |
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| I just read Larry's reply, what he said sounds much better that my explanation!! |
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billnaegeli
Registered Users
Posts:17
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| 09/09/2008 8:39 AM |
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| ok this is my last email , who has actually hung cabinets on ICF? be truthful, nobody is using tapcons..not necessary. you are screwing the cabinets through the heavier wood bracing of the cabinets into the plywood, if you are putting that much weight into a "hung" cabinet the bottom will fall out before the cabinet falls off the wall. but hey its your money and time, especially if your a diy, it makes sense to use tapcons. goodluck! |
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woulfcc
Registered Users
Posts:185
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| 09/09/2008 10:25 AM |
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My LAST reply,
Nice experiment,
Most cabinets are made of med. density fiberboard not 2x. (cheap saw dust ) most do the whole thing out of MDF all do the backs, its just a cost thing.
and the better ones might have a plywood strip on the back for drilling and hanging.
Now plywood or mdf will NOT split like 2x will (no grain pattern)
So we are we on the same page now?
The cabinet is the weak link here, it Will fail before any thing else here ,It is not getting a load that will take an impact.(its static down and out)
the cabinet will act like a washer and spread the the presser of compression of the tap con in to the dry wall on the foam over a large area.
You can do what you want, you properly will.
This just works.
I just looked at some of my work from 10 years ago , It got books and papers just loaded full of stuff.
It has not moved at all.( I even hung my weight on it 147 lbs. just to see) nothing moved! Ya I know I am a Little guy.
I hope you can pull out a hammer drill and drive in a tap con in with an impact driver soon and give it a work out , instead of typing.(it always makes me more money).
Have fun with foam,
Scott
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Changing how the world BUILDS!
One build at a time.
Woulf c.c. |
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robinnc
Registered Users
Posts:115
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| 09/09/2008 7:41 PM |
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Thanks Paul and RTR......I think I see what you're saying.
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