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pete ross
 New Member
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| 04/14/2009 7:44 AM |
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Posted By ICFconstruction on 04/13/2009 4:46 PM Tesla,
The Romans first invented what today we call hydraulic cement-based concrete. They built numerous concrete structures, including the Pantheon in Rome, one of the finest examples of Roman architecture that survives to this day, which has a 42-meter-diameter dome made of poured concrete [1]. The name concrete comes from the Latin "concretus", which means to grow together. This is a good name for this material, as the chemical hydration process, which mainly occurs over the time scale of hours and days, causes the material to grow together from a viscoelastic, moldable liquid into a hard, rigid solid. In our world today, concrete has become ubiquitous, and in fact it is hard to imagine modern life without it. About five billion tonnes of concrete are used around the world each year, enough for close to one tonne for each person per year, at a volume of about 400 liters per person. The cement used mostly in today's concrete is called portland cement. The process to produce portland cement was invented by Joseph Aspdin in the early 1800's in England. The name portland may have been originally a marketing ploy, as portland building stone was very popular in England at that time [1], and Aspdin may have wanted people to favorably compare concrete made with his cement to the popular building stone.
It is important to remember that cement is the powder that reacts with water to form cement paste, a hard, solid material that forms the matrix for the concrete composite. The addition of sand (fine aggregates) that are up to a few millimeters in diameter makes mortar, and the addition of rocks (coarse aggregates) of up to a few centimeters in diameter makes concrete. It has always been known that concrete is a porous material, whose properties depend on its pore space. There are many different kinds of pores in concrete, ranging from the air voids that are entrapped in the mixing process, which can be quite large, up to a few millimeters in diameter, to the capillary pores, which are essentially the space occupied by the leftover water from mixing, down to the nanometer-scale pores that exist in some of the hydration products produced by the cement-water chemical reaction.
Until recent years, the overwhelming focus has been on concrete's compressive strength, which has been mainly related to the overall porosity of the cement paste matrix and the amount and structure of the aggregates. Mechanical strength depends on defects and not on any overall average property, and so is very difficult to relate to microstructure. This has caused relatively little attention to be paid to the details of the pore space. Unfortunately, it has perhaps led to the the idea that concrete is simply a commodity material, with nothing needed to be understood about the microstructure.
However, more recently, it has been recognized that much of the concrete in the infrastructure in the U.S. and Europe and elsewhere has been deteriorating faster than expected, with much of this deterioration due to the corrosion of reinforcing steel coming from the ingress of chloride and other ions from road salts, marine environments, and ground soils. Hence close attention is now being paid to the transport properties of concrete (diffusivity, permeability, sorptivity, etc.) which, although still difficult to relate to pore structure and microstructure, are easier to study in a fundamental way than is compressive strength [2]. This has led to new attention being paid to the microstructure of concrete, with the realization that concrete is a complex composite, whose improvement and control require the usual materials science approach of processing, microstructure, and properties.
This chapter briefly reviews some of the main ideas that have been proposed and partially validated to attempt to explain the microstructure of concrete and its effect on transport properties. The main ideas used are percolation and composite theory, combined with quantitative computer simulations. This chapter reflects the authors' view of concrete microstructure, and draws heavily on computer simulations of the microstructure. Not every part of this view has been validated experimentally, though much has, so that we expect some parts to change over time as new experiments (and new simulations!) are performed. "It does not matter what the footing is made of but the load needs to be distributed more than the 7.5" width of a superior wall. Concrete is more like 10,000 years old." yeah right, 10,000 years. "This is a forum I'd give to my pet turlte to get information from."
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ICFconstruction Registered Users
 Advanced Member
 Posts:638

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| 04/14/2009 7:57 AM |
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| pete, did you follow the link I included? It appears to be a creditable article. Why not check into it before making snide remarks? |
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Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net |
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pete ross
 New Member
 Posts:0
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| 04/14/2009 9:18 AM |
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'Appears' is a great word to use. Unlike yourself I took the liberity to see if you were putting your own strong opinions aside, and checked many other different websites, NOT concrete producers endorsed sites, but factual sites with bias, truth, and honest information.
The term '10,000 years' sounded ridiculous. It's like this forum, it's supposed to be a 'Green Talk' forum. It's clearly "NOT". It 'appears' to be full of narrow mind opinions that are promoted by Concrete Producing companies that make more money than oil companies. No one can argue with you. Even if your dead wrong on any given subject, it wouldn't matter, you have the power.......that's the way the world works.
Enjoy it!
For the record, I'll just sit back and listen and see who is really sincere about helping people, and who is in this to take just take there money. Snide enough? |
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Donnerwetter Registered Users
 New Member
 Posts:89
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| 04/14/2009 11:56 AM |
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"It 'appears' to be full of narrow mind opinions that are promoted by Concrete Producing companies that make more money than oil companies"
Pete; It "appears" that you have some facts in regard to your aforementioned statement which certainly would be of great interest not only to those who post here. No "Snide" intended - just those facts that "appears" you have uncovered! |
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ICFconstruction Registered Users
 Advanced Member
 Posts:638

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| 04/14/2009 1:22 PM |
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Pete, Yes, snide enough. You talk about rash judgement, but you are making one yourself. You are a new participant to the site yet you judge us as big, rich, bias concrete producing companies and not really helping people. Yet I believe you are very wrong, most of the posters here are small contractors, engineers, distributors and so on. Manufactures I don't believe post here often and I have never noticed a concrete producer posting here, and no I did not and will not research that. I don't hate big business, do you?
We see new comers all the time talk about how great this forum is and how nice it is to get free advice, is it wrong if it generates some business, although has not for me. Most people also believe that this forum is a good representative of Green construction. This forum started in 2001 as an ICF forum, so if you don't like it or know better, I encourage you not to waste your time here. Otherwise, start a new thread and expose us for our lies and tell everyone the truth. As far as the age of concrete, this thread is not about that, I had just remembered reading the article and thought it worth mentioning.
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Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net |
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markross Registered Users
 Veteran Member
 Posts:1070
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| 04/14/2009 6:18 PM |
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Posted By Brawler on 04/10/2009 9:36 AM Some of yall better call all the owners of Frank Lloyd wright houses and tell them they are in danger of colapse. They could use some ICF contractors advice. :) Are you aware they just had to do a major structural renovation on the falling water, and that the Guggenheim is also under massive repairs?
Yes, reinforced concrete and foundation problems are a couple of the issues.
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Mark Ross
"Le Canuck" |
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ibgreen Registered Users
 New Member
 Posts:11
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| 04/14/2009 8:03 PM |
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Falling water rests on solid bedrock. It was and is well known that the concrete beams have been deflecting for decades. The problem with the Guggenheim arose with the cast in place columns causing cracking in the shotcrete angle walls. I guess F.L.W. learned his lesson when straying away from his clearly "superior" rubble trench foundation designs.
BTW. this thread has even surpassed "IFC's not worth it" thread in number of pages. Seems like certain people have more of an interest dissing superior walls than convincing others that their system is worth it? |
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woulfcc Registered Users
 Basic Member
 Posts:210

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| 04/17/2009 10:24 AM |
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| One point here, the subsoil that footings or lack of sits on is what you all are stuck on.
most footing are placed on undisturbed soil (most I have done anyway)
So lets talk about that (Sub soil)
The most important part of the building is under the building.
I have no idea what is under undisturbed soil?
That is why I use footers.
If I would engineer the soil( big word for get the water out and add compacted gravel) I get a stable building surface. (A footing of sort)
The big difference is a concrete footing with Rebar has tensile strength and will not settle in one area.
In my own build I will engineer the soil under a footing because of water.
By all means drain to daylight if I can.
The big thing I do not like about superior walls is they use the wall bolts to hold the whole thing together. If one panel settles more than the rest the bolt is all that you got to hold the house up (LEVEL).
So may be adding a footing would help.(it would in my book)
Tilt up concrete buildings are set on footings and are almost the same thing a SW syt.
A wood home is only made for 100 year life expectancy. I think this BASMENT WALL SYSTEM will out last the wood frame wall.
I like ICF it can last for 400 years.
So for low price just to meet building code for a 100 years its out their.
I am on a site talking about a building product that will surpass ALL BUILDING CODES below and above ground with SUPERIOR insulation ,fire rating, soundproofing, insect and, disaster resistance.
And yes it will cost more but you get what you pay for.
So lets get out of the ground and basement talk.
I will not even try with icf, to beat the price of this Basement wall syt.(I build to the roof and sometimes the roof also with ICF's)
They can not come close to what an ICF can do.
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Changing How the World BUILDS! Green , Done , Easy Woulf c.c. of Wisconsin |
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robinnc Registered Users
 Basic Member
 Posts:195
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| 04/17/2009 11:01 PM |
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Sooooo......what is this system? Can you provide a web site?
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ICFconstruction Registered Users
 Advanced Member
 Posts:638

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| 04/18/2009 8:02 AM |
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Superior walls, are precast foundation wall panels that set on a bed of crushed rock instead of a footing.
Is there a reason sw can't be set on footings? |
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Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net |
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Builder One Registered Users
 New Member
 Posts:1
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| 04/19/2009 1:08 AM |
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HooRah Brawler, I also build and have had to learn new things-dogs? I try to not let down others so I researched S.Walls and I was/am impressed and enough that I have my own. These allow me to get some of my hard earned TAX money back and for a home owner to get some money back from the gov't is as good as a paid vacation! The system I have allows me to place as many corners as I want wherever I want. I also have treated framing at all doors and windows that I can attach to and I must say the positioning has taken all squaring problems out of my doors and windows. I have a 40 X 50 basement and have another level stacked on top and this bolted and sealed and could have gone another level but the truss system worked out perfectly for another 2 smaller br's and a second master. The speed that S.Walls went up helped me a lot and the code in NC forced me to add ThoroSeal but 1 extra day is o/k. I researched a little to find what other structures use a "gravel bed on virgin soil" to transfer structure loads and would you guess that most of the parking garages with all the weight and concrete and vehicles are built this way! WOW! I went furthur in building green and used Icynene spray in insulation, I also owe TOH, and I followed the codes and engineering specs for the selected matierials and have a smaller hvac system 1 dual fuel in the basement and 1 heat pump in the attic. I had to cut through the walls in a couple of places that weren't structural and I was again impressed by finding that the rebar wasn't just in the stud beams but in the band and at other points in the walls, and I had a time with the hammer drill that I have decided to allow for this in the furture and have the holes enginered in. Which engineering into the system on the cad/drawings is so easy the changes I made were just as fast as stick-built and planing isn't minute to minute. My gravel specs were for 4"-8" and I also used rebar across the floor, I hate cracks, with plastic and sheet insulation. By the way air intrusion IS a factor in insulation as evidensed by attic insulation, my only problems were having the garage door height raised and that was easilly taken care of by S.Walls crew and ALL of my calls were responded to within 20/30 minutes and the other was having to train the county inspectors, I do wish they would all take the time to keep up with the latest building methods and matierials. I'm so glad I didn't take the urg to "upsize" my hvac and I followed the design I can just about heat with a candle and I am on the air path for turboprop cargo planes and I don't hear them unless I go outside or open a window-when I installed the kitchen I didn't know it was raining until I looke out!COOL One last thing, I'll have to read up on this, Isn't the gravel footing system that is used by S.Walls inhearantly earthquake resistant? |
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Brawler Registered Users
 Basic Member
 Posts:127

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| 04/20/2009 8:03 AM |
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| If anyone would like to see for themselves some superior walls you are welcome to come by my homesite. It is near lake norman in NC. Come see for yourself, I would enjoy the visit. Sundays and Wed would be best. I now have trusses and decking and waterproofing in place. |
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Alton Registered Users
 Advanced Member
 Posts:662
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| 04/20/2009 3:04 PM |
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| I was told that SW uses a gravel footing for two reasons: Cold weather does not stop construction since a concrete footer is not needed and the gravel will allow for minor height adjustments in the field to make the top of the wall level. |
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Alton C. Keown Residential Designer and Construction Technology Consultant Auburn, Alabama E-mail: alton at auburn dot edu |
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TLC-ICF Registered Users
 New Member
 Posts:88
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| 06/28/2009 10:04 PM |
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| guess you all have taken off for the summer, still want thoughts on inferior walls. |
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ibgreen Registered Users
 New Member
 Posts:11
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| 06/30/2009 3:02 PM |
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| Brad, there is an outfit that will set on a notched deep lug footing for above grade applications. If you are familiar with tilt-up it is the same principal. The biggest difference between this company and superior walls would be the additional cavity insulation of 5" EPS and 1" XPS. I talked to a rep about this product and they recently built a school in NC with these setting 906' of wall in 2 days on the notched slab. www.idealprecast.com |
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