ICFconstruction
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| 01/13/2009 8:13 PM |
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Fox Block's 8" T form has an odd characteristic that I can't quite understand. When you alternate the two different forms, to create the stagger, the ties in the legs, don't line up. So every other course will be different. I talked to Fox and they said it was unavoidable with the design. I think is and issue, but the 6" is fine.
NUDURA's 8" T form had a three piece top-of-the-T, a 6" or 8" piece that fit right in the center by tongue and groove. It was weaker than making our own Ts. Is it still that way?
How about Reward, Amvic and so on? |
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Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net |
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Chris Johnson
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| 01/13/2009 9:48 PM |
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I have tried t-forms and personally...only personally, I won't use them. Most work I do using t-forms would only create extra stack joints in the wall which would require additional support. Only once (On a project I designed) did the t-forms fit in with proper stacking and no stack joints.
I find I can cut a t with regular forms quicker than someone can use a t-form and support the stack joint.
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Chris Johnson - Pro ICF
Napa, CA
Come for the wine, Stay for the ICF work |
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miformguy
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| 01/13/2009 10:58 PM |
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The only T form I have used was the Reward T form. I was very impressed with it and it worked flawlessly. We did not have to do any outside bracing which is a huge plus on a multi story job. In reference to a couple of other threads I have seen....we do not have issues with stack joints or multiple corners. I can't remember the last time we had a stack "bastard" joint. We use the forms to get the most practical use out of them. Waste is at a minimum. Multiple corners are more common than rectangles. We use block type forms that withstand pouring very high slumps bracing only from the inside..again a plus on multi story jobs. I tell customers to design what they want and we will build it using quality "block" forms. Sorry to get sidetracked but I have been busy and not been able to reply to all threads.
Virgil Schmidt |
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irnivek
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| 01/14/2009 1:51 AM |
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I am with you, Chris. We have successfully poured multistory T's without the fancy T forms, also without external shoring and I would prefer this method. Less different forms to shake out on site, also actually the same amount of cuts; usually for a T form you have to cut the block to all three sides of the T form. When using normal blocks the layout is continuos on the perimeter without cuts, only the intersecting wall needs cut to length.
Kevin |
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ICFconstruction
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| 01/14/2009 9:08 AM |
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How do edit the subject? I meant "form" of course.
I am with you guys, but I think it is easier to adjust the wall with a T form and then a common seam. How do you do your Ts without the T form? We try to make sure the legs are all cut at the same point and wire them internal.
I will likely continue to use 6" T forms but I will not use the 8" NUDURA T (unless they fixed it), and I don't know if I would use the 8" Fox again. |
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Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net |
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Chris Johnson
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| 01/14/2009 9:15 AM |
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Yes, cut the t-wall and butt it into the common wall, internal wire. I will also add an 'L' made of wood just before the pour on one of the corners, if the distance from the last web to the wall exceeds half the space distance between the webs had the 'L' on both sides. Just form support if needed.
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Chris Johnson - Pro ICF
Napa, CA
Come for the wine, Stay for the ICF work |
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ICFconstruction
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| 01/14/2009 9:40 AM |
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We will just put one 2x on the the through wall each side, holds it plum too. But butting up to the through wall, can sometimes give us trouble keeping the through wall plum.
But how are the T forms of the other manufactures? |
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Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net |
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ICFconstruction
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| 01/22/2009 9:37 PM |
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Today we poured the lower level of the house with the 8" Fox Block "T" form. The form gave us trouble too. The T separated from the adjoining block on every course. The dead end leg, or down as you look at a T, needs to be fastened to the next block internally or by plywood.
How are Reward and Amvic Ts? |
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Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net |
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s22roach
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| 01/22/2009 11:33 PM |
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| We recently finished an ICF home with both 6" and 8" T's in it using the Reward block. We have used the 6" on many occasions before without any trouble. This particular project was the first time using the 8" T and we encountered no problems at all. |
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ICFconstruction
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| 01/23/2009 7:14 AM |
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roach, Do the reward Ts allow the ties to line-up and the seams to stagger by at least 6"? Why do you have plywood on the back of the T?
Off topic are those straps to hold down beams in beam pockets? |
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Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net |
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s22roach
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| 01/23/2009 8:55 AM |
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| Yes, all of the ties line-up and the blocks stagger one foot. I have always put plywood with a turnbuckle at my T's just as a precaution. Plus, it is nice to be able to plumb the wall at the point of intersection. The straps are for wood trusses that are going to support the SIP roof. |
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Paul Stevens
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| 01/24/2009 7:18 PM |
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I use the Nudura 'T' block all the time (6"). I like it. Everything lines up and locks into place. I use the Nudura vertical joint clip to lock in the short end of the 'T' to the adjacent block and I will pour right into the T with no concern about blow outs, block lifting or any movement at all. I don't strap inside or outside either. The 8" T is a different story. I haven't used it for a year or so but I still think it has the slide in spacer which makes it a little weaker but I just use some strapping and away I go.
When I first started working with ICF T's weren't available so like everyone else I built then like Chris and some others have described. I now use them all the time and find them quicker than the time needed to cut tie and strap. As long as you have a level footing the T will stack up nice and plumb.
Paul Stevens |
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ICFconstruction
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| 01/24/2009 10:05 PM |
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| Strapping or plywood AND a brace on the back of a NUDURA 8" T. Internal wiring/zip ties on the leg of the Fox Block 8" T or plywood both sides. But isn't a T form is supposed to allow us to get away from this extra work? |
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Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net |
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icf4life
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| 01/24/2009 10:44 PM |
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| We have used rewards T-form dozens of times since it came out about a year and a half ago(approx) and it has worked flawlessly. No external bracing, all ties line up. I think what really helps is they have 2 ties going diagnally to the t's and the foam comes out in a half circle to divert the flow. We will routinely pour 12' high with no extra bracing at the T. Rewards got a great form coincidentally they charge that way for it as well. |
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ICFconstruction
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| 01/24/2009 11:50 PM |
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I don't know why NUDURA and Fox Block don't refine there 8" T form but they should.
Doesn't Amvic have a T? |
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Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net |
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Paul Stevens
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| 01/25/2009 7:44 AM |
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The Nudura T is the same price per square as all of their other blocks, which is nice. Nothing worse than a company that comes out with a new product and then 'bending you over' to pay for it.
Paul Stevens |
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