mike9000
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| 07/24/2009 7:28 AM |
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Hey all.
I'm a 30 year contractor installing a 20x14 ICF addition on my own home. Interested in using wood bracing (I know how great the metal systems are). Anyone know what they call the jacks the support the walk plank? I've seen plenty of pics of people using the system, but don't even know what they'r called to search for them.
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tb1472000
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mike9000
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| 07/24/2009 4:23 PM |
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Yes...and the pics I've seen show 2-2x4's as the brace post instead of structural steel post. I'm only building a 14x20 addition, and only 3 walls of it are ICF. Economy and little leftover material is in the plan.
Thanks,
MIke |
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Kinsey BBICF
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| 07/24/2009 4:24 PM |
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Mike,
those are called Panel Jacks. Here is a link to find out some more information.
http://www.buildblock.com/products/bracing/reechcraft.asp
if you have any more questions, please contact Buildblock and speak with Joel. He will get you hooked up on the information you need.
Kinsey
Insulating Concrete Homes
OKC, OK |
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wes
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Posts:637
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| 07/25/2009 9:58 AM |
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Years ago, the ICF manuals showed how to build 2x4 bracing systems, I don't know if they still do that or not. Here's how I learned to do it.
Working from the inside of the walls, once the walls are stacked, you screw 2x4s on the flat to the ICF ties.(Note: use a circular saw to cut vertical slots in the 2x's for the screws. Install the screws at the top of the slots, to allow for ICF settlement.) Next, attach diagonal 2x's to these verticals, plumb the walls and attach the diagonals to stakes driven into the ground. Now, attach 4' long 2x's horizontally form the verticals to another 2x standing vertically. Now lay 2x12 PT on these 4' horizontals to serve as walkplanks. Once the concrete is poured and sets up, these 2x12's become the sill plates for the walls, and the 2x bracing gets used for plates, etc. for the interior framing. I've used this system for almost 20 years, and I still don't own any of the metal bracing systems. |
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Wes Shelby
Design Systems Group
Murray KY
wandr@ainweb.net |
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mike9000
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| 07/25/2009 1:08 PM |
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Wes, Thanks. I wouldn't have thought to cut the vertical slots! That would've been a hard lesson. That is the point of the 'hat' brackets in the WASS system. It lets the wall settle. I'm going to see if I can hunt down some of the hat brackets because they seem easier than preping the 2x's. Either way, I'll be using a wood system, and thanks again for you experience.
Mike |
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Alton
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| 07/25/2009 6:52 PM |
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I think that Wes has a good system there without all of the additonal overhead cost. If I may I would like to suggest one more thing that makes it so much easier to keep the walls aligned. I think everyone is aware that wall alignment changes on a daily basis due to temperature, wind, etc. The extra item that I have found that works so well is a device that fits onto the end of a 2x4 brace that allows one person to easily bring the wall back into alignment. This device has a threaded rod that can be screwed in or out to move the top of the wall. It allows the 2x4 brace, although anchored, to be adjusted up to a foot to get the wall aligned. Since it has been some years since I used this device I can not remember the name. So if someone can remember the name or source, please post it here. |
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Alton C. Keown
Residential Designer and Construction Technology Consultant
Auburn, Alabama
E-mail: alton at auburn dot edu |
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mike9000
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| 07/26/2009 7:56 AM |
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| I'm thinking the generic term is turnbuckle, but when looking for the very thing that works well that probably isn't all that much help. They come in so many varieties and sizes. Someone probably does know THE one's that work best. |
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Alton
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Posts:662
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| 07/26/2009 8:50 PM |
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Mike9000,
Yes, that is the term I was trying to remember. Thank you. The size I was looking for fits onto the end of a 2x4. |
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Alton C. Keown
Residential Designer and Construction Technology Consultant
Auburn, Alabama
E-mail: alton at auburn dot edu |
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arkie6
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Posts:153
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| 07/26/2009 10:54 PM |
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| The LiteForm installation manual, which you can download online, has some instructions for making wood bracing (2x4s & OSB) as well as bracing using metal studs for the uprights along with some molded plastic pieces that fit in the utility cutouts in the steel studs. These molded plastic pieces hold the 2x4 kicker and the 2x12 walk board. They use tie wire inserted every 2' vertically in the forms to tie the upright brace to the webs. This allows for some vertical settlement of the forms during the pour. |
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arkie6
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mike9000
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| 07/28/2009 6:43 AM |
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Thanks Arkie6. It appears to be set up for a particular form system. I'll be using Buildblock. Probably could string wires through the webs instead of using screws, but it doesn't seam like it would be as secure. Every bit of info helps.
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wes
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Posts:637
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| 07/28/2009 6:50 AM |
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The tie system that Liteform shows only works if you have exterior ties. If your block system has recessed ties, then you would have to cut away foam to make this work. Screws go through any foam covering the plastic ties and would be far more secure, I think.
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Wes Shelby
Design Systems Group
Murray KY
wandr@ainweb.net |
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dwangle
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Posts:53
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| 07/28/2009 11:23 AM |
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| Is there a reason you are not renting the ICF alignment system? |
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ICF for life |
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mike9000
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| 07/28/2009 12:59 PM |
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| I haven't found rentals that compare in cost to stick built. A couple hundred dollars worth of 2x and plank that can later be used as plate makes the wood almost no cost. Sure the metal systems would be easier, but on so small a project cost is factor. I've only got 60' of wall here. Any idea how much renting a metal system will cost me?? |
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mike9000
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| 07/28/2009 1:01 PM |
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| Wes...I was trying to figure out how much trouble poking wire through the foam was going to be! |
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JAFF105
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| 07/28/2009 2:07 PM |
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| WHAT STATE ARE YOU IN. i HAVE BUILT THREE ICF HOMES AND I PURCHASED THE ENTIRE SYSTEM CHEAPER THAN RENTING THE SYSTEM. I HAVE 35 COMPLETE UNITS THAT YOU COULD RENT AT A FAIR PRICE IF YOUR IN MISSOURI, KANSAS CITY AREA. |
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mike9000
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| 07/28/2009 2:20 PM |
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| Maryland near DC. That's a long haul from Kansas City! Thanks though. |
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arkie6
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Posts:153
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| 07/28/2009 2:35 PM |
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Wes, the LiteForm bracing system with wire ties also works with their LiteForm Xtra forms which have the tie pads recessed ~1/2" below the surface (this is what I am using). Instead of slipping the wire under the tie pad as shown in the manual, you wrap it around the form tie in the wall cavity as the wall is being assembled and then route the ends of the wire between EPS foam planks. This obviously works best with this type of ICF form where the ties are located at the joint between the forms. However, I don't see why this method wouldn't work with standard block type forms where the tie is located closer to the middle of the form - you would just have to punch the wire through the foam. I wouldn't think this would take all that much effort since most block type ICF forms use the lower density 1.5# foam vs. the 2.0# density foam in LiteForm.
I've watched a couple of basements being poured in my area using LiteForm ICF and this bracing system with the steel studs tied to the forms with wire and both seemed very secure with no problems encountered during the pour. |
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dwangle
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| 07/28/2009 7:32 PM |
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Mike,
Did you talk to any rental shops in your area? What about ICF contractors in your area. I know there are a few people that rent fairly cheaply. We have a rental fleet of a few hundred, but we are in Ohio. We rent braces at $5 a week, so I think it is worth it. Anyways, I thought I would throw that out. |
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ICF for life |
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