Is it possible to use wood flooring system with ICF's?????
Last Post 23 Jan 2010 10:27 AM by Alton. 10 Replies.
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magnoliawolfUser is Offline
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28 Oct 2009 10:48 AM
Trying to figure out if I can design a wood flooring system that can be used with ICF walls. I am designing a residential home that has a basement and I want to use ICF's for both the basement and upper/lower sotry walls??? Maybe this is a stupid question but how would you attach the floor joists to an ICF wall????
Dana1User is Offline
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28 Oct 2009 01:48 PM
GWhittleALUser is Offline
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28 Oct 2009 07:56 PM
Go to You Tube and ecoblock has an excellent series of training videos that show the answer to that question and many more.
If I wasn't typing this from my phone i'd find the link for you.

ICFconstructionUser is Offline
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30 Oct 2009 12:36 PM
I use the Simpson StrongTies the most, but you can also use anchor bolts, brick-ledge, ICF connect. Go to the ICF forum and read-on.
Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net
magnoliawolfUser is Offline
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01 Nov 2009 04:20 PM
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. I have received some very valuable info
sarayaleUser is Offline
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16 Jan 2010 10:21 PM
I have been trying to gather up info on this as well. So far this is what I think is correct. Anchor bolts can be used but contractors are preferring the Simpson icf connector. If you have a difference in thickness between floors, you may be able to sit the joists on the thicker icf below, especially if you use a tapered form. You can also use a brickledge form (I am guessing on this one), but you would have a bulge sticking out. If anyone knows if the tapered block would work with an 8" basement wall going to 6" upper wall, let me know. My architect is not too sure about this and specified anchor bolts although I told him to switch to the Simpson strong tie as I think it may be cheaper and preferred by contractor. Any input you can add is appreciated.
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17 Jan 2010 02:20 PM
Sara, just wanted to give you my two cents. I built my own home with an 8" basement transitioning to 6" block as you mentioned. I cannot attest to all blocks, but using Buildblock there is no problem doing that whatsoever. I used simpson connectors in the last foot of the 8" wall, poured it, built the whole wood joist system, then stacked the next 6" block level and poured it. The only thing you have do with this particular block when doing this is to remove the interlocking tabs on the inner 8" wall (the transition does not line up with the smaller block because of the 2" variance, but this is easily done with your fingers or hammer). Depending on the situation a tapered top block could certainly be used, but I dont feel it is needed unless there is a concrete slab or something bearing on that flat surface (a ledge essentially). I dont think a brickledge would do you any good in that situation if you are finishing the basement. Also one thing to note is that anchor bolts are probably much cheaper to purchase, however with the ease and speed of the Simpson connectors that is what I would generally use. Hope that helps you some!
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17 Jan 2010 11:01 PM
With most ICF forms, you can use a brick ledge on the inside and the brick ledge will be hidden if you use top hung open web floor trusses that are deep enough to cover the ledge bump out.  One advantage to these floor trusses is that you can easily run our HVAC ducts, plumbing lines, and electrical wiring through the open webs of the floor trusses.

One problem with using a brick ledge on the inside of the forms is that it gets in the way of the wall bracing during the wall assembly and pour, unless the bracing is on the outside of the forms (less common).

In my case, I'm using a thicker basement wall with tapered forms on the top to form a ledge to support the top hung open web floor trusses. 

I ran the numbers and the cost for the thicker basement wall was approximately equal to the cost for the Simpson hangers and ledger board.

Another option is ICF Connect joist hangers imbedded in the ICF walls prior to the pour.  These connect directly to your floor joists so you don't need a rim joist.  The disadvantage to these is that you have to know precisely where you are going to install your floor joists and what type of floor joists you will be using prior to pouring the concrete.

http://www.icfconnect.com/joist.htm

Good info on the available floor connection options here:

http://www.icfmag.com/how-to/ht_installing_floor_joists.html

Floor truss info:

http://www.classictruss.com/floor_truss_facts.asp



rgbUser is Offline
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19 Jan 2010 02:55 PM
Plumbers and electricians will hate you if you use the brickledge inside as it makes it impossible to run a pipe or wire vertically from one level to the next. PITA. As Arkie said, it also demands you brace the job from the outside. PITA.

I find ICF connect hangers much easier and cheaper than Simpsons. With the ICF connect hangers, installing joists takes the same time as installing joists with ordinary nail-on hangers on a ledger, but you don't have to install the ledger. Big time saving there. The cost of the ICF connect hangers themselves is a fraction of the cost of Simpson hangers, ledger and nail-on joist hangers combined. You will still have to anchor bolt or simpson hanger the rim joists, though. No change there. (When I say rim joist, I mean the joist at the wall parallel to the rest of the joists.)

No great precision is required before the pour. The cast-in portions of the hangers are installed about an inch above the line of the bottom of the floor framing. Yes, you have to know what kind and size of framing system will be used. That doesn't seem onerous to me. You have to have your layout worked out on paper before you start anyway, so you don't end up with an uncuttable floor truss or joist right under the only possible location for the toilet. No problem.

rgb

CentralUser is Offline
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22 Jan 2010 05:23 PM
Sara, tell your architect that the simpliest and least expensive way to build a floor system is to use a rim board and anchor bolt(J-bolt) system. This works very well especially if the 8" and 6" ICFs line up on the inside wall. In most cases, the 1/2" J-bolt will be on 24" centers and the ICF block will have a the foam removed behind the rim board so that the concrete can flow up to the rim board. The J-bold is then put through the rim board and is in the void area. The walls are poured after this process is completed. The J-bolt is tighten after the concrete sets. Ken
AltonUser is Offline
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23 Jan 2010 10:27 AM

Sara,

If you decide to use J-bolts as mentioned by Central, I suggest you observe the following:

Use a code approved material between the concrete and the rim board or use a pressure treated rim board.

Stagger the bolts.  In other words, do not place the J-bolts in a straight line.  Staggering the bolts will help prevent splitting the grain in dimensional lumber.

Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979
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