SIP/Stick hybrid design
Last Post 11 Jul 2007 11:48 PM by slenzen. 11 Replies.
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thescottsmanUser is Offline
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10 Jun 2007 05:15 PM
I'm considering a 3-story rear addition. I like the potential benefits of SIP, but I don't  buy into the mentality that is either "love SIP" or "hate SIP". I'd like to find an engineer who is comfortable building hybrid projects that use SIP's for parts of the design where SIP can speed things up, but is equally comfortable forgoing SIP in pieces of the design where it will be tricky to use SIP. This is particularly important as I live in an area with "residential design guidlines". This pretty much insures that a rear additoin is going to have setbacks on the second and third stories to reduce blockage of light and air to adjacent neighbors. Such designs means that the second and third story walls don't align with the walls of the first story. Not an ideal situation for SIPS, thus the possibility of a hybrid design being optimal.

If anyone knows of an engineer in San Francisco (must be local as I need the engineer to do site visits) let me know and I will point you to a job description.




cmkavalaUser is Offline
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10 Jun 2007 05:26 PM
you should consider using steel sips that are capable of 3 stories in one piece, we are currently doing a 3-story, with elevator .
the rear of the structure steps back at each level and then utilizes the roof deck as an observation platform accessible by a spiral stair


Attachment: havian 002.jpg

Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
mmacgowaUser is Offline
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12 Jun 2007 07:53 AM
CM apparently didn't understand your architectural requirements. I don't think the steel SIP panels can economically be bent to accomodate your upper story setback requirments.

SIPs whether steel or osb are well suited for what you ask for. The structural nature of the panels will work better then SIPs when doing your offset walls. I am not sure why you get the idea of needing a hybrid there. We tend to do hybrids a lot with SIP walls and truss roofs, because of cost and ease of installation, but I wouldn't consider stick walls unless you have large window runs or something that would make SIPs inefficient. But it doesn't sound like your design precludes SIP walls with the information provided. Remember that every penetration of the use of SIPs adds areas for thermal breaks and air infiltration. Think of it like putting holes in your straw above the liquid line. Every hole makes it harder to suck liquid through the straw. So unless you have a method to seal and insulate you can kill the effect of your superior seal and insulation with less efficient stick areas.

In regard to the engineer, are you looking for a designer and engineer? An engineer usually calculates loads from a desing that already exists, so your job description probably doesn't fit the model. If you work with a local designer, you can specify SIP wall thinknesses and then a panel company can convert to SIP use and have an engineer stamp the drawings for code approval. We have engineers that can stamp CA projects and are doing a number of projects in the state.


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29 Jun 2007 04:04 PM
3 story steel

Attachment: havian 002.jpg

Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
SteelSipManUser is Offline
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09 Jul 2007 12:49 PM
3 story in Ruskin, Fl. post by owner :

http://www.ownerbuilderbook.com/forum/user.aspx?id=17355


slenzenUser is Offline
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10 Jul 2007 11:29 AM
I am interested in finding out more about steel sips for a modern passive solar loft like home. I think it should be economical cost using this method. Do I call commercial metal building construction companies? I doubt there are residential builders utilizing these systems. I am in Minneapolis metro area.


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10 Jul 2007 11:38 AM
Usually metal building contractors would not be a good source, you need to get a company that mfgs. steel refrigeration or architectural panels. BUT they must have structural properties. Most of the steel manufacturers are in the south. We could supply the panels to you, but the freight charges would be out of Atlanta


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11 Jul 2007 03:19 PM

3 story construction in progress  slide show

http://www.slickthings.com/wallroof.htm



slenzenUser is Offline
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11 Jul 2007 05:08 PM
Very cool, thanks for the link. Are there any renderings of the finished home? How is the exterior and interior finished? This is right up my alley. I had 2 - 70,000 sq ft freezers constructed for my business in similar manner here in MN years ago. Kind of the same process eh?

How is this construction that wind proof? We had a severe tornado in 98 and it popped the freezer panel tops off and I found panels 5 miles away!


slenzenUser is Offline
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11 Jul 2007 05:10 PM
How is thermal transfer prevented thru the red iron framing?


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11 Jul 2007 06:26 PM
thermal transfer is not as critical in Florida, however the interior will have
1-1/2 steel hi-hat furring and additional insulation will be @ 11ft. intervals were the red iron occurs.

If you are building in MN. and don't have the need to design for hurricanes, there are way to designd with thermally broken channels. Steel homes have been built in Calgary and even been used for below grade foundations.

Those red iron columns are not typical of installation but engineer thought was neccessary as house is in a V zone right on coast. House is designed for 150 mph wind loads, but tornados can be in excess of 300 mph.
as for the freezers 5 miles away? I wouldn't gaurantee anything against tornado wind conditions plus the force of an uprooted  mobile home being slammed against a building


slenzenUser is Offline
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11 Jul 2007 11:48 PM
Yeah it was an F5.  It actually knocked down 2 double block wall buildings in the same industrial park.  Very nasty.


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