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PanelCrafters
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Posts:1323
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| 11/15/2007 10:30 PM |
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Posted By cmkavala on 11/15/2007 7:58 PM
SIPA has posted standard OSB details on their web-site but they have for years ignored the growing steel sip information available to them. You should approach them about posting steel connection details on their site as well
Not likely. SIPA was created by and for the original SIP manufacturers and fabricators. And, they all produce OSB based SIPS. In fact it was SIPA that was instrumental in getting SIPS into the 2007 IRC.
Steel SIPS are no doubt a good product, but America primarily builds with wood, and that isn't likely to change anytime soon. |
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....jc
If you're not building with OSB SIPS(or ICF's), why are you building? |
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Jelly
Registered Users
Posts:269
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| 11/16/2007 4:47 AM |
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| Dare I say it? ... steel SIPS are starting to look more expensive than ICF. I might be crunching the wrong numbers though. |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/16/2007 6:10 AM |
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Posted By Jelly on 11/16/2007 4:47 AM
Dare I say it? ... steel SIPS are starting to look more expensive than ICF. I might be crunching the wrong numbers though.
Your numbers are wrong
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/16/2007 6:17 AM |
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Panelcrafters;
Oh I know its never going to happen, I had to fight to get a spotlight story in the SIPA's News when we one the
2003 Aurora Award for best energy efficient home. They finally relented when I got a steel sip mfg. to join but they have since dropped out because the organization is wood biased |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Donaldson
Registered Users
Posts:90
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| 11/16/2007 8:09 AM |
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Jelly,
I hope you get to visit a steel sip construction sight. If you did you would be convinced that this is the way to build no mater what it cost. But I know it cost way less to build steel sip than with ICF. If you are looking for speed in building then being "dried in" inside of a week even for the DIY is better than anything else out there. I was amazed to watch three new homes go up down the street that were comparable in size to my home. It was three months before there was even decking on the roof, Just the interest alone on that kind of money would be thousands of dollars. The only construction equipment needed to put up my two story were two scissors lifts. On our one story duplex we didn't use any thing but some scaffolding and four guys to set 19 ft long six inch panels. Taking all things into consideration and there have been lists posted on previous pages here, using steel sips with a sip roof is going to be your least expensive way to to build something that will take the weather and give great economy in maintenance and operation. |
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mcinfantry
Registered Users
Posts:9
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| 11/16/2007 8:52 AM |
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| come look at the one we are working on in biloxi, ms.... |
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jmagill
Registered Users
Posts:91
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| 11/16/2007 9:42 AM |
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"jmagill; You did question as to why I was on this forum"
I did and that was in direct response to the following
"I am a SIP builder, it wouldn't make sense for me to share my expertise gratis"
This back and forth serves no purpose.
My intial post was to give information to those, like my self who are looking for it.
I have yet to find a manufacturer of steel skinned SIPS that has a site that posts all the detail, studies and information about their product that allows the end user a complete picture of the product. That is all that I am looking for.
You as a builder have no iron in this fire .( Unless you can point me to an online site that has this info) |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/16/2007 9:59 AM |
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Posted By jmagill on 11/16/2007 9:42 AM
"jmagill; You did question as to why I was on this forum"
I did and that was in direct response to the following
"I am a SIP builder, it wouldn't make sense for me to share my expertise gratis"
This back and forth serves no purpose.
My intial post was to give information to those, like my self who are looking for it.
I have yet to find a manufacturer of steel skinned SIPS that has a site that posts all the detail, studies and information about their product that allows the end user a complete picture of the product. That is all that I am looking for.
You as a builder have no iron in this fire .( Unless you can point me to an online site that has this info)
And please explain who made you mayor of the forum and what your qualifications are to make such statements
I agree it serves no purpose
But I can hang my hat on successfully building over 70 steel homes and commercial buildings
As a builder I have no control over the manufacturers, so take up your arguments with them or SIPA
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Dick Mills
Registered Users
Posts:124
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| 11/16/2007 7:03 PM |
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Here is another SIPs manufacturer (OSB EPS), and their pricing is online as well.
http://sipsproducts.com/page2.html
The panels listed under the Current Prices link are for un-stamped panels, but Butch Johnson just emailed me their current pricing as for third party certified panels out of their Grenada, MS plant:
Current prices in MS for blank panels in 4’ or 8’ widths in standard lengths (8’,9’10’12’,16’ and 24’ are 4 ½” $2.47/sqft, 6 ½” $2.80/sqft, 8 ¼” $3.15/sqft, and 10 ¼” $3.55/sqft.
Contact information is:
Butch Johnson
423 747-8710
sip@xtn.net
Dick Mills |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/16/2007 7:48 PM |
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Psssst ................ your in the wrong forum?
Subject: Good Steel skinned SIP site
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Dick Mills
Registered Users
Posts:124
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| 11/16/2007 7:53 PM |
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Everyone here seems pretty excited to have pricing information for SIPs. I am just sharing the information that I have found. Informed decisions are always better when one has more information. Competition can be brutal, but it exists.
Dick Mills |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/16/2007 8:22 PM |
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Well said LW;
But raw OSB panel costs are just the starting point
One also needs to consider the up charges to get to the real cost per sq.ft.price
such as:
add for:
- wire chases
- treated foam
- treated OSB ( if your in a termite area)
- cost of splines
- cost of plates
- cost of routing out for window/door bucks
- factor waste ( if you need a 21ft. panel are you paying for a 24ft.)
- cost of crane ( for OSB panels) |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Dick Mills
Registered Users
Posts:124
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| 11/16/2007 8:32 PM |
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Chris,
What is the cost of the steel furing that your steel sips need? Steel studs can be pretty expensive in California, I would imagine that those furing strips could be pricey as well, and probably dwarf any of the OSB expenses you have mentioned.
I haven't studied Building codes, but I haven't heard of any that require OSB sheathing to be treated. Didn't you say that your house is OSB? Was the OSB treated on your panels?
Dick Mills |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/16/2007 8:45 PM |
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Posted By Dick Mills on 11/16/2007 8:32 PM
Chris,
What is the cost of the steel furing that your steel sips need? Steel studs can be pretty expensive in California, I would imagine that those furing strips could be pricey as well, and probably dwarf any of the OSB expenses you have mentioned.
I haven't studied Building codes, but I haven't heard of any that require OSB sheathing to be treated. Didn't you say that your house is OSB? Was the OSB treated on your panels?
Dick Mills Steel hi- hat furring 31 cents lft.
Steel SIPs splines $.0.00 (none required)
Steel SIPs crane $0.00 (none required)
Routing for window and door bucks $0.00 (not required)
Cost of over hang soffit $0.00 ( already applied to panels)
Cost of Vapor barrier $0.00 ( already included)
Cost of insurance 50% less
Peace of mind knowing that you are in a structure that cannot support mold growth ................ PRICELESS!
No, there is no code requirement for treated OSB ........... but someones gotta feed the termites , don't want to upset the food chain!
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Dick Mills
Registered Users
Posts:124
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| 11/16/2007 8:48 PM |
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Chris,
Are you saying that the cost of insurance for a steel sip house is 50% less than the cost of insuring the same house made with OSB sips?
Dick Mills |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/16/2007 8:55 PM |
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Posted By Dick Mills on 11/16/2007 8:48 PM
Chris,
Are you saying that the cost of insurance for a steel sip house is 50% less than the cost of insuring the same house made with OSB sips?
Dick Mills
No, I am not saying that, But Mr. Gene Moore is saying that they are 53% less see his attached flyer.
And in addition Zurich give a 10% builders risk discount for steel SIPs construction
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Attachment: Insurance flyer.pdf
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Dick Mills
Registered Users
Posts:124
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| 11/16/2007 8:59 PM |
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I didn't see him saying that. In fact I emailed him, and this is in fact what he says:
Dick, thanks for the info on posting. As regards other SIP Types, we can
insure them be they OSB, Hardy Board or other types, the primary issues
beyond construction type are location issues, specifically what Protection
Class. If they are out in the country w\out traditional urban services I
would not expect the discounts to be significant, but if within urban areas
while the discounts would not be as deep as the steel, they still would be
significant over CB or traditional frame construction.
Gene Moore
727-734-3433, 102
Dick Mills |
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Dick Mills
Registered Users
Posts:124
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| 11/16/2007 9:03 PM |
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Chris,
Regarding the firing strips, I would guess that those are at 16" on center?? That would mean that you would need about 1 linear foot for each square foot of wall (roughly). Plus the labor expense of cutting and measuring and attaching them. Am I right so far?
So that would be about .31 / square foot of panels, plus labor to install them. But I am just guestimating.
Dick Mills |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/16/2007 9:05 PM |
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Posted By Dick Mills on 11/16/2007 8:59 PM
I didn't see him saying that. In fact I emailed him, and this is in fact what he says:
Dick, thanks for the info on posting. As regards other SIP Types, we can
insure them be they OSB, Hardy Board or other types, the primary issues
beyond construction type are location issues, specifically what Protection
Class. If they are out in the country w\out traditional urban services I
would not expect the discounts to be significant, but if within urban areas
while the discounts would not be as deep as the steel, they still would be
significant over CB or traditional frame construction.
Gene Moore
727-734-3433, 102
Dick Mills Did he also mention his office is steel SIPs?
Of course he can insure other panels, he is an agent, however when he built his office it was the only SIPs system that was insurable due to his close proximity to the Gulf of Mexico
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/16/2007 9:10 PM |
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Posted By Dick Mills on 11/16/2007 9:03 PM
Chris,
Regarding the firing strips, I would guess that those are at 16" on center?? That would mean that you would need about 1 linear foot for each square foot of wall (roughly). Plus the labor expense of cutting and measuring and attaching them. Am I right so far?
So that would be about .31 / square foot of panels, plus labor to install them. But I am just guestimating.
Dick Mills No ..........24" on center as steel is always straight and does not warp they can be spaced at 24"
But please continue and after you add the upcharge of that furring please include the cost saving for the other items:
Steel SIPs splines $.0.00 (none required)
Steel SIPs crane $0.00 (none required)
Routing for window and door bucks $0.00 (not required)
Cost of over hang soffit $0.00 ( already applied to panels)
Cost of Vapor barrier $0.00 ( already included)
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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