Hi there

 Has anyone heard or had any experience building with leepcore panels, if so how much did the panels cost.

 They claim to bo be a framless product like sips but there seems to be 2"x4" steel frames to hold the floor trusses or the roof am a bit confused. Can anyone explain please.

  their company website link
Thanx,
Tony

“Responding to Tony’s 1/9/08 post asking about LeepCore:

 

LeepCore construction panels are 2’ wide, 4” thick and any length up to 12’ with a tongue projecting from one long side and a matching groove on the other long side to facilitate gluing them together into LeepCore Construction Sections.  They are made from two rolled galvanized and polyester-painted roll-formed steel pieces filled with chemically bonded polyiso closed-cell foam producing an R-value of 25 and a light weight of only 3#/sq.ft.  The panels are so strong that when used as floors, floor joists are needed only every 6’ and as roofs every 12’.  Wall strength exceeds Florida’s worst hurricane codes without any extra bracing or studs.

I helped build a building with LeepCore a few months ago.

The metal pieces at the ends of panels are end caps of galvanized steel to distribute loads and to provide strong attachment of walls at corners and walls to roofs and floors.

The cost is about $7.00/sq.ft.     

For more information see LEEP,Inc’s website LINK or post again and I’ll do my best to answer.

                                                                                                David”

 

thanks david,

I am building a custom house in toronto Canada, will these panels be a good idea to build with? they use some kind of frame to support the joist can you highlighten me regarding this please?If you don't mind, Can you give me your contact info so that I can contact you with some questions regarding leepcore since you have had some experience with this product.I would certainly appreciate that.

Thanx,

Tony.
,

Hi Tony, LeepCore would be an excellent choice for the house in Toronto. Floor joists of any standard type can be used with conventional support from a concrete foundation wall. LeepCore Construction Sections used as walls can be bolted into a poured concrete slab avoiding the need for first floor joists. Joists or trusses for the floor for a second storey can be attached to 2"X4" steel posts located in the 2 1/2"X4" trenches that are present in tne middle of the inside of each 2' wide LeepCore panel. What I have been explaining is illustrated in the Construction Manual on the LEEP,Inc website at Please send me an email at [email protected] so I can respond to further questions.

Hello Tony.

Just curious about your choice for a type of panel.

Have you looked at Polyurethane panels that use OSB for the skins?

The company we use for our frames and structural houses provide us with jumbo (8'X24') panels that are very strong. We like the fact that there are fewer seams, and the install goes pretty fast. And I believe their 4 1/2" wall panels cost around $5.00 per square foot including gaskets, fasteners, plates, etc. You could probably use the 6" thick panels for walls and roof and achieve an average of R-40 all around and still be under $7.00 a square foot.

I realize steel skins would be stronger than OSB, but how many hurricanes have ever hit Toronto? We have built SIP houses in the mountains in California that, with some extra tie down strapping, met earthquake standards for that area.

Look at this: LINK

Hi lockard,

I did look at polyurethane panels that use osb for the skins, The reason I am not inclined towards the osb product is for termite resistance and also I don't think there is a need to use vapour barrier for the leepcore panels,may be i am wrong but thats what it mentions on their website, and also they use a different product called polyiso which is termite resistant other than polyurethane used by thermocore.

That is true Tony, with Steel SIPS you do not to use Tyvek, and Steel Skins are superior to wood, for more reasons however. OSB panels, although can be Borax Sprayed, a bug repellent, like Steel Skinned Panels, OSB Panels are heavier, and more labor intensive. I have a question, are those LeepCore Panels only 2' wide? That seems to be a lot more work too. The Panels we use here in Florida, are 4' wide and made with as dense a foam available on the market. I hope that you will show pictures of your project. If this is your first SIP project, and I can offer any advice, please ask me.

Charles

Charles

Anyone working in the south knows how impotent PT is against termites, it just slows them up a little. we very often leave pt stakes in the ground for batterboards and in a matter of weeks the ends are chewed off.
LINK
just looking for termite tube won't get it!, they very often come up alongside sewer and water pipes thru the floor, inside a wall where you can't see them until they swarm.  Then it's a horror show that will rival any
Steel is the only good deterent

There are at least two different systems on the market for the last few years that prevent termites from entering a home through openings around penetrations in the slab.

 

Contrary to popular myth, FORMOSAN SUBTERRANEAN TERMITES DO NOT EAT CONCRETE nor can the soldier's defensive fluid dissolve holes in concrete. These rumors continue because Formosan subterranean termites are always digging through the soil. Because of this continuous activity, they are likely to find cracks and crevices in concrete or mortar and gain entry to a structure. This can fool someone into thinking that Formosan subterranean termites can eat through solid concrete.

Chris, the above quote came from the site/link you posted.

Tony doesn't have to worry about Formosan Termites. They are restricted to southern areas because their eggs will not hatch below about 20°C (68 °F). Canada has it's own type of termite (s), but at least it's not our Formosan (super termite).

Visual inspection, treatment as mentioned before, keeping the site clean and proper landscaping/grading are very effective measures in the battle against any type of termite. Baits placed around the building are also effective.

Why in the world would you leave untreated stakes in the ground for any length of time? That seems to me to be tempting fate.

Since termites can and will get into your house through the tiniest of cracks, pipes, etc. they usually go straight for the goodies like floor joists, plates and studs. They can and will do an end run around the exterior walls, no matter what the sheathing is.

Potlatch's OXTerminator features a 25-year warranty against structural decay due to termites or fungal rot.

I am curious. Would you mind listing the reasons that Steel skins are superior to OSB? If you can convince me, maybe I'll try steel. In the meantime.........

The OSB Polyurethane panels we use weigh around 2.2lb per sq. ft.

Forklifts load sequenced, bundled panels at the plant. A crane or forklift unloads them at the site. A crane/sign truck sets them. With a crew of 5, we average between 20 to 25 panels a day. Sometimes that's all the walls. That's picking, setting, fastening and sealing. Since the panels we use are 8' wide by up to 24' long, that's a lot of square footage with a minimum of seams. Labor intensive? My arm does get a little tired signaling the crane.

The 4" timberpanel eliminates the need for window/door jamb extensions. These panels can be up to 10' tall for structural framing. Window and door jamb extensions are a pain and expensive.

4 1/2" R-28 wall panels (8X24)
6 1/2" R-41 roof panel (8X24)

Lockard;

Steel doesn't require a warranty against structural decay, termites or rot so why use wood?

The posts are for the benefit of other areas besides Canada

You are off on you weight per sq. foot OSB is closer to 3.5" and steel is 2.5# and are light enough that no crane is required.
The underside is pre-finished and serves as a finished soffit, panles are unaffected by water or other ellements, nothing to warp/swell or split.

Our panels come up to 53ft. long, OSB is limited in length

they do not require splines (OSB most common problem - can have leakage problems @ splines)

Alton;

What about cracks that occur after construction is finished and hidden under flooring?

Chris,

I do not know of any termite prevention system or product used in the continental US that will prevent termites from entering a home through cracks in the slab.  (Hawaii uses a special type and size of sand.)   I was strictly speaking of barrier systems such as Termimesh and Imapsse Termite Blocker that protect planned penetrations through the slab such as pipes.  I understand that termites can enter through a crack as small as 1/32".  The only thing that I can suggest to protect the cracks is to post tension the slab.  Because of expansive soils, post tensioning is catching on in my area of practice.

Alton,

Do any of the fiber reinforcements for concrete perform well at eliminating cracks? Like PVA or AR fibers? I do like the idea of post tensioning for slabs. One question I have is how much of the standard rebar reinforcement can post tensioning replace? I assume that you still need a welded mesh, but one would hope that some of the post tensioning costs could be offset by the elimination of at least some of the rebar.

Dick Mills

Alton;

I have done some post-tensioned slabs in Louisiana where expansive clays were present. The post tensioning does not prevent cracks, it only give you the ability to close them by re-tensioning the cables.
You still would not be aware of a crack problem if it is covered with flooring.

fiber reinforced concrete does not prevent cracking either, it only takes the place wire mesh.

Although post tensioning does eliminate wire mesh and some reinforcing, it is difficult in our area (Florida) to find a contractor willing to take a residential project (due to size) And costs have typically run about 60% higher than a conventional slab.

Post tensioning slabs are usually used in Florida when the sub-surface investigations show some unsuitable soil bearings or potential sink-holes.

Chris,

Well said.  We are in agreement on all of the points you made in your last post.

Chris,

In your areas, FL & LA, I can see where you are concerned with termites, rot and fungus. I've seen pics of some of the damage the termites are doing to New Orleans. Pretty sad. But here in the midwest I still think you can avoid all of those problems just using the method I mentioned earlier. The warrenty is just a bonus.

I thought the original post was about ynottony in Toronto

Your're right. I should have said 2.2lb foam density. As far as a crane goes, a lot of the time it's not the weight, it's the size. It's hard to handle just about anything as large as 8'X24'. A crane/sign truck is a safe and fast way to do a panel install, especially on some of the sites we work on.

Wow! You can install 53' long SIPs without machinery? Impressive. How wide are they?

The splines in the panels we use are molded in during the process. They are basically part of the rest of the panel.
The foam core in one panel touches the core in the next. Expanding foam gaskets applied within a 1/4" gap in the OSB seals out air and moisture. The gap also helps prevent ridging, especially in roof panels.

I visited your site, pretty nice. I couldn't seem to find much in the way of technical data. I'm kind of a newbie at this computer thing. Where can I find that info?

Thanks,

I avoid using wire mesh in concrete slabs as much as I can. I much prefer to use fiber. At least fiber is throughout the slab. Wire mesh should be towards the top of the slab to control cracking. Over the years I have not seen anyone use wire mesh correctly. I have about come to the conclusion that it is impossible to keep the wire mesh towards the top of the slab when the concrete crew walks on it. With all of the concrete I caused to be removed, I do not ever remember seeing the wire mesh where it should be.

Does anyone else feel this same way about wire mesh?