Is anyone familiar with this product and company?

LINK

Thanks,

Scott

Scott,

I just found this company this week and I am impressed. I have spent about an hour on the phone with the president, Geoff Jennings. I like their approach. I started out thinking I would use an OSB made locally, but the more I looked at steel, the more I liked it. I've looked at Structall, Thermasteel, and Accelerated Bldg. Technologies products. Their manufacturing site is relatively close - about 60 miles, so that's a plus. We will be building just north of New Braunfels, TX.

Let me know if you have come to any conclusions on these guys. Thanks.

rgansle;

 

I looked at the system back when Scott made his post, but found they have more thermal transfer than any of the steel SIPs systems out there.
Their claim is 99.9% effective thermalbreak at the full foam separation, but is deceptive because the transference is thru the steel webbing not the foam.
and they do not show roof sytem to compliment the wall?

TFriedman

From talking with Geoff Jennings at Transcon, they use their 5" panel as a roof panel. I'm going to point Geoff to this site to see if he cares to address your concern on the thermal break. There's another company - Accelerated Building Technologies that uses a similar concept, except they employ an 8" wall with 4" of EPS and 24" centers on the studs.

I wonder why the don't show their roof panels on their web page?


I had spoke to a Mr. Gavlak @ accelerated bldg. tech.(a subsidary of worthington industies), but theirs was the same deal no roof panels.

Neither company is a SIP with a laminated skin as most think of them, more of a prefabricated stud frame & foam.

I have been thinking that a wall system like this with the addition of 1-2" of rigid foam (polyiso, probably) on the outside would make a heck of a good house at fairly low cost.  Anybody want to comment on pros, cons, and costs relative to skinned SIPs?  I don't think I'd consider it without the extra foam on the outside, though, which probably pushes the costs beyond skinned SIPs.

Scott, the landscape of modern construction is changing rapidly and the thought of OSB Sips and Concrete ICFs are a bit out dated.

For an overview of Moder Building Systems go to http://StyroHomeNews.blogspot.com

I appreciate everyone’s interest in Transcon Steel. The technology was built on eleven years of alterative building experience. I want to address how Transcon Steel differs from the existing approach of creating a thermally broken building system and the thermal performance of our solution, Ultra Frame.

The traditional thermally-broken design approach has caused system complexity resulting in non-competitive pricing, higher labor rates and assembly time, and in most cases resulted in the manufacturing of a composite system held by adhesives that break-down over time. Further the designs of an exterior frame and an interior frame result in a higher exposure to structural failure. Most foundations are poured with a minimum of 10% of the slab partially inside the exterior wall line. If the slab is exposed beyond wall line, proper waterproofing of the wall base plate is limited. The result is that the exterior skin, that is tested for total composite performance, is in a cantilevered non load-bearing condition with high shear stress on the connectors and double loading the panel on the interior face beyond design standards.

I wanted to move away from the skin approach and to introduce a thermally efficient system that was cost effective, easy to assemble, and could be safely engineered by any firm globally. The end result was Ultra Frame. Ultra Frame is used for floors, walls, and roofs. We simply change the gauge of metal and the spacing of the studs to meet the design loads of the building in a value-engineered approach. Instead of having to upgrade an entire wall or roof assembly because of a few point loads, we can more cost effective change the gauge and spacing in that one particular zone and greatly reduce total product cost of a structure.

Now how does Transcon Steel evaluate the 99.9% thermal separation in the Ultra Frame panel? First the calculation is off of a standard 4' wide panel. A standard panel with studs spacing of 16" on center requires 4 studs per panel. The standard 20ga stud is 33/1000 of an inch resulting in four studs using just over 1/10th of an inch over 48 inches. Now that 1/10th of an inch in metal has over 90% of the heat transferable metal removed. We then have a panel that only has an effective 1/100th of an inch of metal over 48 inches. That 1/100th of an inch is fused in structural EPS providing insulation of the stud to the point that the heating and cooling effect on the stud does not transfer beyond the first 1/4 of the panel.

When it comes to the measuring of a buildings total performance with doors, windows, and any weaknesses in the total envelope, the Ultra Frame panel can deliver a highly thermally efficient solution, that is safely engineered and installed, and at a competitive price to traditional construction.

I again thank everyone for their growing support of the technologies that Transcon Steel is delivering to the built environment.

Transcon;

please address the following:

1. The basis of your statement that adhesives breakdown over time?

2.  your statement " Further the designs of an exterior frame and interior frame result in a higher exposure to structural failure" what does that mean?

3. please explain how your top and base tracks are thermally broken?

4. what is the minimum gauge of your studs?

5. how are window headers made and are they 99.9% thermally broken?

6. can't seem to download your PDF connection details in you website not working?


respectfully,

TF

To be fair, steel-skinned SIPs do not have thermal breaks in top and base tracks either, and with OSB you end up with 2x lumber in there, which is only slightly better.  Maybe even worse given the much larger cross-section of the 2x and the fact that it's often 2-3 layers of lumber between the first floor and second floor panels.

I saw on the website that the window and door openings appear to be framed with the same Delta stud material, at least for reasonably narrow openings, so that would be a semi-break just like the vertical studs.  I assume that wider openings would need more substantial lintels.

Transcon, if you really want to sell this thing, set up a thermal imaging test to prove that thermal bridging is minimal (if indeed it is).  Build your wall panel in between a skinned SIP to one side and a traditional 2x lumber framed wall on the other, let one side get hot and/or cold and stick a decent thermal imager on the other side and see what happens.  Make sure all three walls are exposed to the same conditions for the same period of time.  Make sure to build the top and base areas the way they'd be in a real building.  (Better yet, pay a third party lab to do it... but that's money of course.)

rmortman, thank you for your response.

To answer the tfriedman's questions:
1) about adhesives, Austin Energy Green Building Program suggests that it is best to select products are are adhesive free. Please review the below link.
http://www.austinenergy.com/energy%20Efficiency/Programs/Green%20Building/Sourcebook/constructionAdhesives.htm

Another article found below discusses adhesives and the design life of OSB based SIP's:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/588401.html

"....From reading this I understand that OSB will survive exposure to
moisture during construction and is not harmed "provided OSB dries
before the air barrier and cladding are both added". Assuming this is
done, this next reference gives the answer to your question

http://www.greenspec.co.uk/html/design/materials/panels.html

The adhesives used in SIPs (a designation of panels of which OSB is a
member) have a track record of more than 25 years, and SIPs have been
used in the USA for more than 40 years. Where the SIP system has been
tested and is protected from moisture, a life of a least 60 years is
expected. A recent European Technical Approval Guideline ETAG 19
provides performance criteria and tests for SIPs.

I would say that your answer is that OSB adhesives/panels would be
expected to have a life of at least 60 years. The key phrase is
"protected from moisture". If not protected from moisture, it appears
that an OSB panel would have a very short life."... "

2) As to the exterior/interior frame design, some systems have been designed where the metal component is rotated web-out in the weak axis for axial resistance. The effect of cantilevered skins causes another impact of disproportionate loading contiditions on a wall.

3) The top track and base track are typically 18ga solid track members. The importance of the solid member is to resist uplift and shear stresses on the building allowing the Ultra Frame system to be built in hurricane zones, seismic zones, and other highly regulated regions of the world.

4) The gauge range of the stud used in Ultra Frame is 14ga to 20ga.

5) Window and Door headers are fabricated as a standard box header with structural EPS injected into the header. This allows Ultra Frame to maintain the maximum thermal performance in header design.

6) The website connection details page for Ultra Frame is under final development and will be uploaded to the website before the end of August.

Transcon;

Thanks for your quick replyies and to follow up.

1. How does you statement apply to steel skins? there was a previously accelerated aging test posted rearding this.
Sips have been around already for at least 60 years please point us to reports of houses now falling apart. (exclude Alaska)

2. The skins are not cantilevered if they are attached, are you making a false assumption?

3. you danced around the question, how are they thermally broken?

4. Your earlier analysis used 20 ga. to acheive the 99.9% thermal efficiency, please post the 14 ga. analysis

5. So your headers are held together with track I would assume that is not thermally efficient?

6.I will check back the end of the month

it is attached again, according to the MUSA reps at the time, the interpretion of the testing indicated that the steel sips life span would be 300+ years

I am fine with the adherance of steel skin systems. My house has a steel skin system for its roof system. In 11 years of distribution of steel skin systems I experienced no delamanination. Also, testing laboratories report that as long as the adhesive is protected there is little to no breakdown for the life of the product. In regard to wood SIP's, I have a builder in Dallas that built with wood sip's and 20 years later they are now experiencing delamanination in the roof. I also give that there have been major advances in adhesives since that time period.

As for the cantelivered statement, all that I am saying is that skin systems are anywhere from 18/1000" to 5/8" and when slab conditions result in the panel having to float beyond foundation edge, the panel face is not directly supported by the concrete and only supported by the base track.

As to the thermal break of the top and bottom track, again, we use industry standard 18ga or heavier metal track for load bearing exterior wall conditions. It is more important to have a structure withstand the long-term impacts of wind, seismic and flood conditions than to jeopardize the safety of occupants by having a split faced or sheared thermal track condition when you are only talking about less than 1/10th of an inch over the total wall height. To protect the track, 3M thermal tape can be applied to the outside face of the building, or the building can be cladded over again with an additional layer of EPS if you would like.

The analysis is the same with the exception that instead of using a 20ga (33mil component) the 14ga (68mil component) is used. This creates a condition where there is 1/50th of an inch over 48 inches that can cause thermal transfer; however that 1/50th of an inch is encased in structural EPS therefore reducing its transferable opportunity.

Yes, headers do have a top track and a bottom track. Again, structural performance and occupant safety is the driving factor in this design.

Best regards.

Transcon;

Your builder in Dallas may be experiencing delamination for other reasons, not necessarily - degradation of adhesive, as you eluded to in you post

The OSB fasteners attached to the bottom plate are picking up the shear load and not relying on the foam. Furthermore, your statement is a
"what if ?"situation which would not apply on a properly constucted slab or on a wood deck.

So bottom line -  the top and bottom tracks are not thermally broken

Yes, I agree that the 14 ga. stud analysis is the same but with a different result. It is over twice the thickness. according to your analytical methods it would be 48.5% effective on the studs and 0% effective at base, top & header tracks?

So according to your last statement "structural performance and occupant safety is the driving factor in this design" not thermal performance

I don't see the point of using a Steel framed SIP that has is not thermally broken, when there are steel framed SIPs that are.

newhome;

it really depends on the climate you are building in, I do not have thermally broken channels in my home, but if I were building in Michigan would absolutely need them.
FSEC had done some thermal imaging photos (accurate to 1/4 of a degree) of a finished steel SIP home in Wesley Chapel, FL. just a very thin line appeared on the photos  at the base and top chanels and none showing at the window openings.
All materials have some degree of thermal conductivity, even standard wood framing conducts thru the studs & trusses. In extreme climates it becomes more important to restrict the thermal conductivity

I don't think climate has anything to do with it.

Why chose a product that conducts when you can have one that conducts less.. Seems very simple.

Newhome,

I think climate can make a big difference in loss of energy.  The greater the difference in temperature from inside to outside, the greater the loss.  Am I wrong in this assumption?

The point that if you could pick between two steel framed SIPs( not steel skinned) why would you not chose the one that saves the most energy regardless of your location and climate.