Bob-O
Registered Users
Posts:3
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| 02/27/2008 2:17 PM |
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| Hi:
I am looking for manufacturers of Structural Concrete Insulated Panels in the US. Can anyone point me to few?
Many thanks,
Bob-O |
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Matt Phelps
Registered Users
Posts:26
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| 02/27/2008 3:53 PM |
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Hello Bob
Most SIP manufactures only use panel skins made from OSB. I previously worked for a SIP manufacture that built only Cement Board (CB) SIP's. The manufacturing process is remarkable different for the two panels, I must admit I was supprised. Manufactures who make OSB panels can not simply substitue CB for OSB and continue to produce a quality panel.
I am presently working with a manufacture in St. Martineville, LA that makes both OSB and CB panels. If you would like to contact me off line I will be happy to help you.
Best of Luck,
Matt B. Phelps, P.E.
mphelps@apec-llc.com
512/670-9400 (o)
512/748-8199 (m) |
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Bob-O
Registered Users
Posts:3
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| 02/27/2008 4:34 PM |
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| Hi Mat:
Thanks for the info, but what I am really looking for are mfgs. that produce a sip sandwiched between a wire frame, and once the walls are in place both sides are spayed with a 1" to 2" of shotcrete.
Bob |
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Alton
Registered Users
Posts:308
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| 02/27/2008 5:26 PM |
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Bob-O,
I have used a system called In Steel. I believe it is now called: http://www.tridipanel.com/about/about.htm
The wire frame was 3/4" away from the foam. After shotcreting the walls, we stuccoed them.
Feel free to e-mail for more info about using it: Alton (at) Auburn (dot) Edu Of course, use the at symbol and period. I write my e-mail address this way trying to avoid the bots that scan the forums for addresses.
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Alton C. Keown
Residential Designer and Construction Technology Consultant
Auburn, Alabama
334 329-0957 AT&T Cellular |
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Dick Mills
Registered Users
Posts:124
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| 02/27/2008 5:47 PM |
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This is like Speedwall, right? My question about this type of system is how much thermal energy gets passed through the foam via those steel strut wires? It may not be significant, but I haven't seen any specs on it.
Dick Mills |
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Alton
Registered Users
Posts:308
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| 02/27/2008 8:19 PM |
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Dick,
Excellent question. I have thought about it every since I used In Steel several years ago. I still do not have a definite answer.
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Alton C. Keown
Residential Designer and Construction Technology Consultant
Auburn, Alabama
334 329-0957 AT&T Cellular |
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Dick Mills
Registered Users
Posts:124
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| 02/27/2008 9:01 PM |
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I would think that a Magnesium Oxychloride cement on the inside of a Speedwall system might be a good way to mitigate the thermal conductivity of the strut wires, since the Sorel cements have much lower thermal conductivity than Portland cement. Sorel cements are also much stronger than Portland cement. I would be a bit more leary of using a Sorel cement on the exterior due to it's poor resistance to moisture related degredation.
Dick Mills |
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slenzen
Registered Users
Posts:163
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| 02/28/2008 2:22 PM |
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greensandwich
solarcrete
m-2
tridipanel
metrockscip
I am concerned about getting a flat smooth wall with these systems. The last company mentioned built in a screed rail to give a flat wall finish.
A big holdback for me is no local experienced crews. Although these new systems seem very promising, I'm leary of being a guinea pig on a new system. |
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ReadyToRetire
Registered Users
Posts:195
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| 03/01/2008 11:51 AM |
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Slenzen,
Thanks for posting that list of interesting web sites.
IIRC, Habitat for Humanity built homes using that technique in Florida, and they were the only ones in the area that survived I forget which of the storms a decade ago. But I thought that they used an expanded metal screen rather than the somewhat wide spacing on the steel in these pages.
The 2" wire screen looks reasonable, but what of the one that just used rebar every few feet -- would that be sufficiently strong and would that wide of a spacing prevent cracks through which termites could enter?
Do you know of any data on the thermal bridging across the steel crossties?
Very respectfully,
Larry
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Bob-O
Registered Users
Posts:3
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| 03/01/2008 4:52 PM |
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| All the mfgs. I have contacted using scips and sips with rebar all swear that there is no heat or cold bridging. However I would sure like to find out for sure from a disinterested third party before I proceed.
Bob |
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ReadyToRetire
Registered Users
Posts:195
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| 03/01/2008 5:19 PM |
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Bob-O,
Here I go again proving that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. . .
Did any of them explain why there isn't? My impression was that concrete would not act as an insulator -- what else would prevent the bridging?
Very respectfully,
Larry
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ReadyToRetire
Registered Users
Posts:195
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| 03/02/2008 6:27 AM |
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Have any of you used both SIPs and the shotcrete onto foam core wall techniques such that you could compare them?
Very respectfully,
Larry
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Leslie Moyer
Registered Users
Posts:1
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| 07/21/2008 10:24 PM |
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The installer/builder I talked with about it also said the bridging from the wire truss was "insignificant." I do, however, have other concerns. The biggest one is that one illustration I saw showed that everywhere a truss meets the exterior wall, a solid-concrete joint was needed....that is, they strip the EPS out and fill the whole thing with concrete to stabilize the joint. This would open up a huge thermal bridge.
Other concerns include:
On a curved wall (we have many), the EPS would bend to create gaps on the exterior, leaving gaps of insulation.
I've seen too-widely-ranging estimates of R-value--even without taking into account the thermal mass moderation.
Another concern is providing a way for moisture that gets into the wall to migrate out. One installer suggested some sort of "weep holes", but I'm not liking the notion of how that would affect thermal performance. I've about decided that a "drain plane" with a secondary exterior wall finish would be necessary.
And the nature of cement to form cracks is of some concern, too. Usually, expansion joints are used in a cement pour--a wall like this would have no expansion joints....not to mention micro-cracking that will undoubtedly occur.
And lastly, I'm concerned about running utilities inside the wall, making them inaccessible later. I know this is a problem with SIPs, too.
We've designed our house to be pretty dependent on using Green Sandwich SCIPs (now out of business) for construction, so I'm still working on resolving these concerns.
Here are some suppliers/builders I found:
http://tridipanel.org (CA)
http://www.structurtech.com (NC)
http://www.cswall.com/index.htm (CO)
http://www.envirolaststructures.com (SC)
------as far as I know, all of the above companies build with the same panel--the ones below use a different type, I believe------------
http://www.compositebuildingsystems.com (CO) (Builds with MetRock below)
http://www.metrockscip.com (CO) (Green Sandwich builder formed this new company)
http://www.culverwaycohousing.com/ (MO - it's not on their website, but this guy was certified by Green Sandwich before they went under)
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ergodesk
Registered Users
Posts:31
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| 07/22/2008 10:36 PM |
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Leslie,
That's some list your packing there, Green Sandwich and all.
Keep them coming. |
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Build Smarter with Structural Insulated Air
http://StyroHomeNews.blogspot.com |
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