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John Cannon User is Offline

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Posts:5

02/29/2008 4:12 PM
Hello all, I am new to your SIPS board, came accross it via the usual: GOOGLE. I have built several homes and camps over the past 30 years, mostly a sideline to my Logging business here in Vermont. So I know enuf about building to GC our new and final home: efficient, smallish (2000'), ICF,SIPS, maybe a masonry heater if it doesn,t bake us and passive solar (great site, for VT). Anyhow this will be a Timberframe hybrid- 24' x36' 1.5 floor timber frame with a 1 foor 24' x 24' hybrid addition. All walls wrapped in 6 1/2" SIPS and roofs 10 1/4". Alot of Timber Frame outfits now offer SIPS and mine does also. A handy idea, one outfit does it all, but the SIPS costs for panels pre-cut as well as erection seem awfully high e.g. $30 total coverage sq. ft. living space. On top of this, for a total coverage area of 4500 sq. ft. they estimated near 6000 sq. ft. of SIPS. Lots of waste. I guess I am trying to figure at least the range in which I should be paying. Any guidlines for this rookie to SIPS?

PanelCrafters User is Offline

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Posts:1293

02/29/2008 9:32 PM
Posted By John Cannon on 02/29/2008 4:12 PM Anyhow this will be a Timberframe hybrid- 24' x36' 1.5 floor timber frame with a 1 foor 24' x 24' hybrid addition. All walls wrapped in 6 1/2" SIPS and roofs 10 1/4". Alot of Timber Frame outfits now offer SIPS and mine does also. A handy idea, one outfit does it all, but the SIPS costs for panels pre-cut as well as erection seem awfully high e.g. $30 total coverage sq. ft. living space. On top of this, for a total coverage area of 4500 sq. ft. they estimated near 6000 sq. ft. of SIPS. Lots of waste. I guess I am trying to figure at least the range in which I should be paying. Any guidlines for this rookie to SIPS? It's really difficult to associate square footage of a space, to the square footage of exterior walls and roof. And, adding in installation, makes it that much more difficult(local labor rates). So, for materials only, I would figure $6 per squate foot of panel for the walls & $7 for the roof. Real rough, but that should give you a 'guesstimate'(include window & door openings).

....jc If you're not building with OSB SIPS(or ICF's), why are you building?

olpjeb

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Posts:55

02/29/2008 10:08 PM
John - I paid about $8 / ft^2 for polyurethane panels including window and door cutouts, and an additional $2.7 / ft^2 for installation. On the basis of living space, the SIP package cost me $20 / ft^2 installed with window and door cutouts, and electrical boxes. For your reference, the house livings space is 2576 ft^2.

John Cannon User is Offline

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Posts:5

03/01/2008 9:53 AM
Thanks guys, those numbers are helpful. Still I am concerned about waste, SIPS being green and all: does it really take 6000 sq. ft. of SIPS panels to cover 4500 sq. ft. of walls and roof. For those of you that order rough/uncut SIPS, what is your calculation for waste? Tough question ,I guess, it depends on supplliers sizes vs my needs. Any input appreciated. Thanks, John

Alton

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Posts:286

03/01/2008 12:46 PM
John, By using metal polyurethane SIPS, the waste can be greatly reduced. The SIPS can be ordered cut to fit. Some companies will not charge for voids like garage doors or large windows that have panels that are cut into. Although the metal polyurethane SIPS may cost more per square foot, there will be less square footage to buy because of the voids. Thin polyurethane panels save heated square footage also.

John Cannon User is Offline

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Posts:5

03/03/2008 6:56 PM
What's going on here? I had a response to my questions who seemed responsible enough and actually adressed my questions, yet his post (answer to my post) was deleted before I had time to contact him. I notice many out there include their contact/business info????????????

NWP

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Posts:49

03/03/2008 10:04 PM
Hello John, I posted a reply yesterday but it seemed that it was gone before it even posted? My name is Ralph Lord and I have manufacturing plant in souteast NH. we do a lot of work with timber frame companies and i can understand you issues. There are a variety of ways to complete you package however I would recommend you using structural on the walls and if you are planning to put 2x6 t&g on the roof of the frame then i would only use a nailbase panel for the roof. I noticed that the price seemed a little high. Most companies do not do the whole house sf as a cost basis, they go by wall and roof sf. I can also connect you to some very talented framers in the area if you would like. Have a great day. Ralph

Gsfrey

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Posts:60

03/04/2008 1:55 PM
For those of you who are timber builders, which is structural, the SIP's or the timber frame. We, in commercial work, used open web joists atop 6 1/2' SIPS walls and they are structurally sound to sustain a significant load. Over 10k sq. ft. we run a steel rafter down the middle of the structure supported by steel posts and then connect the lighter weight open web or bar joist to the center load bearing rafter. Does, timber framing work the same way? Thanks.

Greg Freyermuth 915-256-7563, Phone GregFreyermuth@elp.rr.com, E-Mail

John Cannon User is Offline

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Posts:5

03/04/2008 5:35 PM
Greg: The Timber Frame is structural and the SIPS wrap it. I will use structural SIPS to wrap, though some timberframers use "curtainwall" SIPS which are usually sheetrock/foam/OSB. Timberframes are an expensive choice, but if done well are very cool. On the other hand, I have heard SIPS dealers refer to Timberframes as "$50,000 wallpaper", the point being that SIPS IS STRUCTURAL, who needs the frame?. It is ironic then that SIPS began here in Vermont with Amos Winter who figured out a great way to enclose/insulate a Timberframe in one step. Structural came later. Back in the early 70's pre-SIPS, I was involved in a project to enclose a beautiful red oak Timberframe: after sheetrock on exterior of Timberframe, we hung a 2" x 4" frame off of the walls and stuffed it with sheets of styrofoam, then after sheathing the roof in 2" x 6" T&G, did the same thing there. A major pain all to assure that the entire Timberframe was fully exposed.

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