The Best Home Built
Last Post 10 May 2009 11:54 PM by barkri12. 53 Replies.
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Greg FreyermuthUser is Offline
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05 Apr 2008 04:22 PM

I recently had to travel to Georgia, both ways in a car with 4 kids.  I had lots of time to think and I decided I want to build the best home ever.  I want that to be my new marketing line, plain and simple, "We build the best house!"  I intend to take this little plan back to Savannah and target a section of the market, namely higher end custom work, condo/townhouse communities and larger scale middle cost subdivisions.  I want your thoughts.

Now, a couple of parameters:
1.  Everything is price sensitive, we have to compete in the marketplace.
2.  There is no one seriously using the marketing benefits of building green so there is to be some edcuating necessary.

That being said here are my plans:
1.  I will make my own SIP's do I want PU or EPS?  I currently manufacture and build with EPS SIP's but will set up a new manufacturing plant.  The weather is humid and summers are like a sauna.  which is better and why?  R value is not near as important as Maine but a concern nonetheless...
2.  I will use MgO board.  It is less suceptable to fire, mold and bugs.
3.  All interior wall are going to be steel.
4.  We will have radiant heat, tankless hot water and use some of the basic smart technology.

What are your thoughts?  On PU vs. EPS, use of MgO board and steel as a substitute for wood and what would you do differently?

Thanks,



Greg Freyermuth<br>915-256-7563<br>[email protected]<br> www.energreensips.com
GeorgiaTomUser is Offline
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06 Apr 2008 09:45 AM

Greg;

RE: Paramaters

1.    You stated you were going higher end/upscale, so you need to "sell" that! Highend is not as "price sensitive if you are selling value.
2.   The media is helping you right now . everthing is "green" talk

your plans:

1.   go with what you know ..EPS
2.   Steel panels make more sense being light weight and not limited in length like MgO
3.    your on the right track with steel, why switch to MgO on exterior?
4.    OK with tankless & smart tech, But why radiant?  in a hot climate its not worth the money. Put your money in high SEER heat pump.

Thoughts:

1.   All builders need to be licensed in Georgia as of July 1, 2008 .... better start to study now. Test is tough, and you will need to have verifiable - 4 years building experience in a management capacity, as well
2.   Rarely does contracting and manufacturing work well together the thinking processes are totally different. Only a person with mental problems would want to  be a contractor.
3.   Know your current competition . there are currently at least 3 steel SIPs and 2 OSB manufacturers within  2 hours of Savannah. If you think no one is doing SIPs there now you are wrong

PS .. I love Savannah too



cmkavalaUser is Offline
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06 Apr 2008 10:10 AM
Greg;

Although Tom has some valid points, we already "Build the Best House"


Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
Greg FreyermuthUser is Offline
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06 Apr 2008 10:16 AM
Tom,

Thanks. To be sure high end is not price sensitive, but the education is still necessary as it is hard to go to a potential high end buyer. They are out there, so you have to find them... I guess sell was the wrong word. "Find" would be a better word. Green talk and green building are two different things as I found out on my last fact finding mission...

I also got a great e-mail from someone responding to the posting. His point followed yours along the line of EPS. His focus was on the price effectiveness. I do not know enough about the steel to really consider it, so given the limitations and price of MgO, maybe OSB is still the way to go... It is renewable and like the bamboo we would use, fast growing.

I did not consider the drawback of radiant. We use it here because we do get some protracted cold spells, but because it is cleaner as well. In the desert nothing stays clean long.

Lastly the test was inevitable. It is also a good thing. There are grandfather methods, buying an existing business, etc. But that there is competition is not a bad thing, only means more people know about the product and we have less to do to flatten he learning curve.

Thanks.


Greg Freyermuth<br>915-256-7563<br>[email protected]<br> www.energreensips.com
Greg FreyermuthUser is Offline
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06 Apr 2008 10:28 AM
Chris,

If anyone would have said, I knew you would be first...



Greg Freyermuth<br>915-256-7563<br>[email protected]<br> www.energreensips.com
GeorgiaTomUser is Offline
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06 Apr 2008 10:28 AM
regarding GA licensing:   Don't be deceived,      "grandfathering" is no longer an option  - that ended last year.   Buying existing business does not "buy"  the license.


Greg FreyermuthUser is Offline
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06 Apr 2008 11:11 AM
It's different than NM then. Thanks for the heads up...


Greg Freyermuth<br>915-256-7563<br>[email protected]<br> www.energreensips.com
Greg FreyermuthUser is Offline
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06 Apr 2008 11:13 AM
Just out of curiosity, Tom. If you have been a contractor for less than 4 years, out of school, change of careers, etc., you mean you cannot qualify for a GA contractor's license? Explain the process, please.


Greg Freyermuth<br>915-256-7563<br>[email protected]<br> www.energreensips.com
GeorgiaTomUser is Offline
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06 Apr 2008 12:42 PM

Greg;

If you have no construction experience, you can also qualify to sit for the exam if you have a 4 year bachelors degree in:   engineering, architecture,
construction management or building construction.
 but, you will still need to pass the state exam,  show credit worthiness, show proof of gen. liability and workers comp insurance.  there is no reciprocity with other states. And if you were doing business in Georgia and did not get "grandfathered" in already, you need to take the test.



Andy@panelworksplusUser is Offline
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09 Apr 2008 11:41 AM
GeorgiaTom,

I don't know what MgO is but an MgO/ EPS / Steel skin panel would have to be thrid party tested and that is very expensive. I would go with would has been tested and thats OSB / EPS / OSB panels. If your going to manufacture your own panels try to team up with another manufacture and use their lisencing agreement. The next issue would be do you have any experience with the panels? if no get some real world in the field experiecne. SIP buildings are great! the best you can buy in my opinion. If done right. They can also be boched and a huge mess. Do your research and good luck.

Andy


GeorgiaTomUser is Offline
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09 Apr 2008 12:04 PM
Andy;

Thanks for the heads up, however I have no interest in manufactring. I do have experience with OSB, Aluminum and Steel SIP construction. Please note that many Steel SIPs are not new, have been around for 50 years and already have third party approvals ......... so using Steel is not a risk taking experience, on the contrary they have many advantages over OSB


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09 Apr 2008 05:05 PM
Greg,

You might be playing catch up.

I just got back from the mainland in the Hilton Head area, where I visited a house built by the David Weekley group.  They're listing Joseph Lstiburek as a consultant and have adopted the BSC recomendations.  And it was a really nice design, also.  It wasn't SIPs, but it way better than the normal construction that I've seen.

Good luck,
Larry


Greg FreyermuthUser is Offline
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09 Apr 2008 05:33 PM
And as such we have someone in the market place already educating folks on the benefits of the Building Science Corporation way of doing business.

If folks want a green home, they can not do any better than sips. Now that may change in a few years or for that matter a few hours but given sips' price point competitiveness (sp) it is still the best game in town. Weekley can be in the market, so is DR Horton, that's no reason not to go and compete.

Playing catch up? There is no such thing. Besides they can promote BSC all they want, they are still not producing "The Best Home Built"


Greg Freyermuth<br>915-256-7563<br>[email protected]<br> www.energreensips.com
cmkavalaUser is Offline
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09 Apr 2008 07:08 PM
Larry;

I have attended continuing education classes  featuring Joseph Lstiburek  as the speaker, the man is  a genius!


Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
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10 Apr 2008 06:23 PM
Chris,

I would really enjoy hearing him speak, I've gotten a lot out of his web site.  Finding a builder that's actually willing to apply his ideas made me seriously consider the area. 

Greg,

What criteria do you use to decide it's best?  I'm more anal than most of my friends, and I'm much more willing to inspect and look at what I'm going to purchase.  But I'm still buying function.  If you can build a house to meet my requirements, I'm not as concerned how you build it.  In contrast, most buyers are shopping features (read too big and poorly thought out, but flashy) and looks -- the Wow factor.  How else do you explain them buying big, expensive refrigerators with high very high failure rates; it's style and bragging rights.  My bet would be that you'll get a very small fraction of the market on a best argument; you'll need to be able to segragate that market and selectively address it.  Good, quiet, healthy, etc. will get attention, but best is an overused term that might have little response.

But good luck.
Larry


lambabbeyUser is Offline
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11 Apr 2008 02:12 AM
Greg, you've got to be kidding.

No offense intended--seriously--but The Best House isn't what YOU dictate to someone is the best house. Building The Best House for someone is about asking the right questions of a client, really listening to what it is that THEY want and need and building THAT house, even if it has absolutely nothing to do with your own personal choices for products, construction, personal philosophy or aesthetic. Claiming you build The Best House and then forcing someone to adapt to your beliefs about what that IS sounds myopic and a bit arrogant, not to mention really, really cheesy.

Can't you come up with a pitch that doesn't sound like you just drove it off a used car lot?

Just my 2¢, man.


John


John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br>
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11 Apr 2008 08:24 AM

John;

I absolutely disagree, I believe as  seasoned building professionals we owe it to our clients, ourselves and the environment to offer what we perceive to be the best constructed house. All the while maintaining aesthetics, engineering, energy efficency, health and sustainability.
In years past we have not considered good stewardship of our natural resources.
By attempting to build the best house we are not imposing anything on anyone, people still have the right of choice.
The housing industry has been stuck in the "model T" mode for the last 500 years and has not seen any great advancements until just recently.
I enjoy hearing Greg's energized passion, I share in that passion, I enjoy being a part of pioneering new technologies.
If you think is all sounds cheesy, it is apparently not shared by organizations like: NAHB, PATH, Build America, USGBC and EnergyStar, as these organizations encourage builders to "think outside the box"
I never try to "hard sell" my ideas to a client, they either "get it" or they don't. I don't waste any time with them, as they obviously only want cheap and there are plenty of builders with the "used car" attitude that will give them what they paid for.
 .


Just my opinion, and you know we all have one!



Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
lambabbeyUser is Offline
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11 Apr 2008 09:22 AM
Chris:

The problem here is your erroneous assumption that you've got it all figured out as to the kind of house everyone ELSE in the world needs. No one person has the answer to that. And it's the height of arrogance to claim that you DO. The concept of Best House is a completely subjective call. The problem here is that you're attempting to tell everyone ELSE what's best for THEM, as if you've somehow been bestowed with the Holy Grail to the exclusion of every single other [non-Steel SIPs] builder out there.   It's asinine to assume that any one person's concept of Best House could possibly be stretched to somehow meet everyone's needs. That's just rubbish. And that's because there are infinite solutions. The decision as to Best House for ME is not going to be the same as what's best for the Joneses down the block, or the Coopers across town. We've got totally different goals, tastes, needs, objectives and budgets.

To speak in specifics, I guarantee you that Steel SIPs are not the best solution for my own needs. And that's not because I don't GET what Steel SIPs are. It's because I DO get what they are and am able to make an informed, educated decision about them. "Pioneering New Technologies" aren't what I was referring to when I said cheesy; I was referring to the use of a slick, trite and myopic marketing hook like "We Build The Best House For Absolutely Everyone. No Really, We DO.  And If You Don't Agree It's Because You Simply Don't GET It."

For the record, I applaud Greg's passion. But that doesn't mean I believe his approach (or your reasoning) is sound. The two aren't mutually exclusive.


John


John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br>
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11 Apr 2008 09:51 AM

John;

I don't think I have it all figured out, but I am thinking!

You are too thin skinned! where is your sense of humor! The Best house comment by me was tongue-N-cheek.

Never made any of the claims you are trying to put in my mouth?
 
I am a proponent of steel and try to point out its benefits and as steel may not work for someone that already has a closed mind, it probably wouldn't work for you either.

Guess the Used car lot comment was a compliment?



Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
lambabbeyUser is Offline
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11 Apr 2008 09:59 AM
Chris,

If you want people to see humor in your postings, you need to make them funny. Maybe you just need a little help with your writing.


John


John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br>
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