SIPs and heat reflection/obsorbtion
Last Post 12 Aug 2008 06:52 PM by cmkavala. 41 Replies.
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cmkavalaUser is Offline
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07 Aug 2008 06:15 PM
I was leaning on an OSB panel  sitting in the sun the other day and it felt incredably hot,  so today I had an oportunity and an infared temperature gun.

I set an OSB, a Fiber Cement and a Steel SIP right in a row in the sun and at
2 PM the OS temp was 92 degreees the photos show the results in the order above
Lbear ,
Check this out

Attachment: Bianco 018.JPG
Attachment: Bianco 021.JPG
Attachment: Bianco 022.JPG

Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
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07 Aug 2008 06:43 PM
I'm not saying the effect isn't real, but you have to be a bit careful with those IR temperature guns.  For an accurate reading, you have to know a property of the thing you're measuring called "emissivity".  Most IR guns assume an emissivity of around 0.95, which is valid for a lot of materials, but not valid for shiny metal, which tends to have much lower emissivity.  That would lead to a low reading, unless you have a gun with a programmable emissivity, and you know what value to plug in.  Try again with a contact thermometer.



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07 Aug 2008 08:03 PM
The steel is not bare, it is painted white and reflects well , but even to the touch, it is a lot cooler than OSB


Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
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07 Aug 2008 08:27 PM
I can certainly believe that.  I'm just saying, be careful with trusting those IR guns on shiny surfaces.  But the numbers you're getting aren't hard to believe, to me.  In most applications, though, there would be sheathing over the SIP, which I'm sure changes things.  But it certainly argues for ventilated ("cool") roofs in hot, sunny climates, whatever your skin material.  By this I mean putting down vertical furring strips over the SIP roof to provide a small ventilation/drainage space between the roof cladding and the SIP itself -- I'm not talking about ventilating the attic.  Of course, that adds cost.



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08 Aug 2008 09:18 AM

Donalson;

had suggested that in all fairness I should have painted all samples white for better results, but the reality is that this is the way they all come from the factory.

As I was kneeling on the OSB sip floor it was 92 deg. beating me down from above and 140 deg. cooking from below.

Talk about "a cat on a hot tin roof" he don't know what hot is until he tries to walk across an OSB sip roof on a sunny day



Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
jrc3User is Offline
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08 Aug 2008 12:29 PM

To the original poster:

Please explain what conclusions can be drawn regarding the "heat reflection/obsorption [sic]" properties of the three types of SIPs, based on the photos above.

jrc3



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08 Aug 2008 02:35 PM
I'll take a guess jrc3, and that is that the thin metal dissipates heat more rapidly than does oriented strand board or fiber cement. If it were thicker I bet it would be just as hot or hotter than the other two.

If you cook something in a hot oven on a piece of aluminum foil, you can open the oven and grab the aluminum foil without any discomfort. Now try the same thing with a cast iron pot and you'll get a third degree burn.


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08 Aug 2008 02:46 PM
The real question is, what is the temperature of the interior of the skin, which is touching the foam?  The temperature seen by the foam determines the effective outside temperature, for purposes of heat conduction.  OSB is thicker and slightly insulating; the inner side is probably cooler than the outside.  The metal is thin and highly conductive; probably no appreciable difference between outside and inside.  This might narrow the gap between the two materials, but I doubt it fully closes it.  What probably closes it is that in practice, OSB has cladding outside of it which will take the brunt of the solar gain (and probably reflect a lot of it, if well chosen).  I wonder if fiber cement might not be the real winner in this test, though.



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08 Aug 2008 04:30 PM
Posted By jrc3 on 08/08/2008 12:29 PM

To the original poster:

Please explain what conclusions can be drawn regarding the "heat reflection/obsorption [sic]" properties of the three types of SIPs, based on the photos above.

jrc3

jrc3;

it was just an observation, I always thought the steel would be hotter and was amazed that the OSB got as hot as it did, making it dificult to handle when installing.




Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
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08 Aug 2008 05:37 PM
Interesting experiment. As a corollary to this experiment, I would be interested in putting these three panels, say two feet off the ground, cover all three with plywood and check the top and bottom of the panels with the infrared temperature gun. That might give some indication of the absorption and reflection of the three panels in a more real-world circumstances.

Steve
GrandCountySIPs.com


Steve Etten
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08 Aug 2008 07:46 PM
Posted By cmkavala on 08/08/2008 4:30 PM
Posted By jrc3 on 08/08/2008 12:29 PM

To the original poster:

Please explain what conclusions can be drawn regarding the "heat reflection/obsorption [sic]" properties of the three types of SIPs, based on the photos above.

jrc3

jrc3;

it was just an observation, I always thought the steel would be hotter and was amazed that the OSB got as hot as it did, making it dificult to handle when installing.



Fair enough. Do you think the surface temperatures you observed suggest anything regarding the relative performance of the three types of SIPs in a typical installation? 


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08 Aug 2008 08:05 PM

jrc3;

I don't think it affects the insulation performance at all



Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
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09 Aug 2008 08:01 PM
Posted By cmkavala on 08/08/2008 8:05 PM

jrc3;

I don't think it affects the insulation performance at all


Then what was the purpose of your post?


....jc<br>If you're not building with OSB SIPS(or ICF's), why are you building?
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09 Aug 2008 08:59 PM
Posted By PanelCrafters on 08/09/2008 8:01 PM

Then what was the purpose of your post?
As I said earlier, it was an observation, you may glean from it what you want


Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
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09 Aug 2008 09:17 PM
Posted By cmkavala on 08/09/2008 8:59 PM
Posted By PanelCrafters on 08/09/2008 8:01 PM

Then what was the purpose of your post?
As I said earlier, it was an observation, you may glean from it what you want

HaHaHa! Your motives are very obvious. No one viewing this forum needs to wonder why you went to effort to create this thread(pics and all). Nice try...


....jc<br>If you're not building with OSB SIPS(or ICF's), why are you building?
JellyUser is Offline
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09 Aug 2008 10:15 PM
You two go at each other like an ICF guy going after a SIP guy.


DonaldsonUser is Offline
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10 Aug 2008 12:39 AM
Some are just so insecure....


cmkavalaUser is Offline
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10 Aug 2008 07:19 AM

HaHaHa! Your motives are very obvious. No one viewing this forum needs to wonder why you went to effort to create this thread(pics and all). Nice try...
The motive is information, detective! (aka - jrc3) nice try ...

OK Magnum PI....................... 3 months ago I posted the benefits of steel SIPs over OSB.

Much to my suprise, I can add to that list that they are cooler to handle in the sun than OSB or fibercement

3 months ago I challenged you OSB guys to please post the benefits of OSB over Steel SIPs ....................................................... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....


wake me up when you think of something!


Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
cmkavalaUser is Offline
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10 Aug 2008 07:33 AM
Posted By Jelly on 08/09/2008 10:15 PM
You two go at each other like an ICF guy going after a SIP guy.
I love jc, I would just like to see him come over from the dark side!



Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
cmkavalaUser is Offline
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10 Aug 2008 08:01 AM

jc........

 

in case you forgot:

Although any SIP construction will save 50 – 60% in energy costs, are 3 times stronger than frame, and are more environmentally friendly. Steel is a better choice for the following reasons

 

Advantages of Steel SIPs vs.OSB

 

v  Steel will not warp, swell, twist, rot

v  Rain during construction do not affect materials in any way

v  Are 20 degrees cooler to handle in sun than OSB (which can reach 140 deg)

v  No cranes needed for installation a steel SIPs are lighter than OSB

v  The underside of the roof panel automatically forms an attractive finished soffit overhang or exterior porch ceiling.

v  Joints are a T&G friction fit they do not require splines, mastic or fasteners greatly speeding installation time

v  Steel is more stable during manufacturing and panels are held to 1/16” tolerance

v  OSB is limited to 24ft. in length …Steel SIPs are available up to 53ft. in length, eliminating butt joints

v  Steel panels are manufactured on a continuous line making them available in square pre-cut lengths in  ¼ ” increments, but only charged to the nearest  ½ ft., OSB often rounds up to the nearest 2 ft. increment – making you pay for waste that gets thrown away

v  Higher ” R – Value denser foam provides a 4.25 R- value per inch of foam

v  No Termites … Impervious to termites and carpenter ants , foam core is borate treated

v  No foam grooving is required for window and door openings, after cutouts are made, openings are simply “picture framed” with 18.ga. steel channels

v  The steel skin is the “vapor barrier” on walls no additional covering is required before siding is applied

v  Eave overhangs can be 4 feet with no additional support

v  Sound Control – utilizing a 1-1/2” steel furring strip creates a dead air space for improved STC ratings.

v  Wiring – utilizing that same air space, wiring is much easier than fishing wire thru OSB and any future retrofit wiring is easier.

v  Will not support mold growth – painted galvalume steel skins are UDSA approved

v  Indoor air quality is better due to the tighter and cleaner construction material of the interior

v  Any steel building is safer from lightning strikes

v  “Monocoque construction” All connections and attachments are with screws having greater pullout strength than nailing

v  For economy or insulated utility buildings, steel SIPs have been left exposed as the finished siding and roofing.

v  Zurich Ins. In partnership with the Steel Framing Alliance offer reduced builders risk insurance premiums

v  In Florida and other hurricane prone regions Steel SIPs are 30% less to insure that block/truss and  53% less to insure than wood frame construction

 


Attachment: Insurance flyer.pdf
Attachment: AcceleratedAgingTestreport.pdf
Attachment: SIP 005.JPG

Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
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