Michael Gryb
Registered Users
Posts:15
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| 08/25/2008 10:59 AM |
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Good morning everyone.
I
am searching for some information about metal SIPs approvals. The
panels we produce are very similar to Thermasteel ones. We began
producing these panels very recently and i am not clear yet what
approvals we should have and what requirement we should comply with.
Look forward to talking with someone who could answer my questions. And
also I look forward to a partnership with experienced people who could
work with me in metal SIPs sphere and help mine and yours business grow.
Thank You
Michael
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 08/25/2008 11:25 AM |
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Michael;
your profile shows you are loacted in Jacksonville, so you may want to go after your Florida Product approvals.
Have you done any rack & shear, bending,connection strength, impact missle, fire -load bearing testing yet? |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Alton
Registered Users
Posts:308
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| 11/05/2008 5:15 PM |
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Chris,
Does the State of Florida have a missle impact test protocol that a building system has to meet to be approved there? If so, then how would ThermaSteel pass this test? |
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Alton C. Keown
Residential Designer and Construction Technology Consultant
Auburn, Alabama
334 329-0957 AT&T Cellular |
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Matt Phelps
Registered Users
Posts:26
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| 11/05/2008 6:57 PM |
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Hello Mr. Keown,
The debris impact testing protocol is ASTM E661 (Floor and Roof sheathing) and E695 (Wall, Floor and Roof Construction). There is also a test protocol developed jointly by Texas Tech (my alma marter) and Florida A&M, Florida State, and the University of Florida. The Texas Tech, et al report referanced other ASTM standards also relating to testing whole structures.
As you may have guessed our lab performs debris impact testing here in Austin Texas. I have done an axial compressive load test (ASTM E72) on a Transcon steel panel, I have not done a debris impact test on this type of panel.
If I may be of service please feel free to contact me.
Matt B. Phelps, P.E., R.S.
SIP Engineering and Testing, LLC
512/670-9400
mphelps@apec-llc.com |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/05/2008 8:10 PM |
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Posted By Alton on 11/05/2008 5:15 PM
Chris,
Does the State of Florida have a missle impact test protocol that a building system has to meet to be approved there? If so, then how would ThermaSteel pass this test?
the picture as shown in their post would not.... unless it had additional plywood cladding.
The thermasteel "hurricane" panel has many additional intermediate 24 ga.flat studs that virtually cover the entire foam core, it must be very heavy, but it is not the panel that is shown
Their Florida Product approval does not indicate that it is impact resistant? and their approval is limited to "walls only" up to 12 feet in height
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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ThermaSteel
Registered Users
Posts:17
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| 11/06/2008 2:13 PM |
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| Actually i work for ThermaSteel. I would once make sure you are not infinging on copyright issues. But to build in all 50 states you need all the major building code approvals, including ICC, Florida Prodcut Approval, and Miami-Dade Co. |
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Michael Myers
1-540-633-5000 |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/06/2008 2:42 PM |
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Posted By ThermaSteel on 11/06/2008 2:13 PM
Actually i work for ThermaSteel. I would once make sure you are not infinging on copyright issues. But to build in all 50 states you need all the major building code approvals, including ICC, Florida Prodcut Approval, and Miami-Dade Co. Not nesssarily a true statement, many areas of the country still have no requirements.
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/06/2008 2:48 PM |
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Posted By ThermaSteel on 11/06/2008 2:15 PM
There is a hurricane ThermaSteel panel with metal studs 5" on center on the exterior side of the panel. This prevents any projectiles from going through the panel.
Its kinda what I said on the previous post a flat 3-1/2" stud @ 5" oc , only leaves 1-1/2" of exposed foam, no doubt it is impact resistant, no doubt it is heavy, please explain what you do for a 16 foot wall , as your Florida Product approval is limited to 12 ft. walls?
And what do you use for the roof? |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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ThermaSteel
Registered Users
Posts:17
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| 11/06/2008 3:28 PM |
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| No we are not limited to 12' walls. We can go higher. 12' is as long as our presses can handle. When we do higher walls (in your case, 16ft) we would do a 9' and a 7', then a 7' and a 9'. That way the joints of the panels are stagger and it elimiinates the hinge effect. For a standard panel (4x8 24gauge) it is 48lbs, a hurricane panel would weigh about 76lbs because of the extra studs. I have had some in the carribean that actually used the hurricane panel for roofing to prevent things from going through the roof then use metal strapping to tie everything down. |
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Michael Myers
1-540-633-5000 |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/06/2008 3:32 PM |
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| What is your FL.Product Approval # for roof panels? |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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ThermaSteel
Registered Users
Posts:17
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/06/2008 3:51 PM |
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I have already been there
that is the walls ..........where is the roof number?
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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ThermaSteel
Registered Users
Posts:17
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| 11/06/2008 4:02 PM |
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| The wall and the roof panel are the same type of panel. What would dictate on what would be used on the roof is the uplift. That would be determined by the engineer. |
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Michael Myers
1-540-633-5000 |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/06/2008 4:11 PM |
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Posted By ThermaSteel on 11/06/2008 4:02 PM
The wall and the roof panel are the same type of panel. What would dictate on what would be used on the roof is the uplift. That would be determined by the engineer. The panel may very well be the same type, but loads on walls and roofs are vastly different, what works for a stud will not necessarily work for a rafter.
your claim that you have all approvals is false. You only have appoval for 12 ft. walls
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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ThermaSteel
Registered Users
Posts:17
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| 11/07/2008 12:25 PM |
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I am sorry that you feel that way. We have over 190 structures in Florida ranging from residential to commercial. We have about 125 military homes located in Satelite Beach, FL..a 180,000 sq. ft Senior Assisted Living in Crane Creek, and the VA Clinic. Those pictures can be seen the web site. Stating that our claims of approvals are false. Here are report numbers for the code approvals that you can view.
BOCA- Report Number 91-40
ICBO-Report Number PFC-4216
SBCCI-Report Number 2143
ICC-Report Number 91-40
Those can be viewed through the ICC. Our missle impact testing was done by the Hurricane Test Lab Inc located in Rivera Beach, FL. I hope that is sufficient.
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Michael Myers
1-540-633-5000 |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/07/2008 12:40 PM |
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Posted By ThermaSteel on 11/07/2008 12:25 PM
I am sorry that you feel that way. We have over 190 structures in Florida ranging from residential to commercial. We have about 125 military homes located in Satelite Beach, FL.
Having done work at Mac Dill AFB myself , I know that the military is not inspected by the civilian inspection agencies and does not need to comply with any state or local code at all. |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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ThermaSteel
Registered Users
Posts:17
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| 11/07/2008 12:47 PM |
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| I dont understand how it can be a fact when we are listed on the ICC and Florida Product Approval. It is amusing how you state that we have no approvals when they are listed on our web site, but you alone have no code approvals and only 2 SIP manufacturers have their ICC. |
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Michael Myers
1-540-633-5000 |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 11/07/2008 2:38 PM |
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Posted By ThermaSteel on 11/07/2008 12:47 PM
I dont understand how it can be a fact when we are listed on the ICC and Florida Product Approval. It is amusing how you state that we have no approvals when they are listed on our web site, but you alone have no code approvals and only 2 SIP manufacturers have their ICC.
You are listed for walls only with the Florida Product Approval agency. Again if you have a ROOF panel # please post it. The ICC designation in Florida is of no value.
I don't consider you a SIP anyway, I view thermasteel as a prefabricated, pre-insulated wall section.
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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ThermaSteel
Registered Users
Posts:17
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| 11/07/2008 3:23 PM |
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| You are right, we are listed under the Florida Product as walls only, but the roof panel is the same as the wall panel. Under the ICC and the other 3 we are listed for walls and roof. The roof panels, however have been used all over the state over Florida, as well as the US. I do not consider us a SIP panel either, but alot of people when looking for an alternative to OSB or other, call it a SIP since our panel is a structural insulated panel. But i have to explain that we are not. By the way, I thought your name looked familiar and saw that we actually spoke July 07. I knew i knew your last name. Its one of those that you seem to remember. Take care. |
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Michael Myers
1-540-633-5000 |
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