tlynch
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cmkavala
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| 10/07/2008 12:32 PM |
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| You would get closer or below the 100K mark utilizing painted galvalume steel SIPs for walls and roof with no cladding |
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Chris Kavala
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tlynch
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| 10/07/2008 12:39 PM |
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It is actually not my project, just one that I find interesting and am following online. They are right around $100k, maybe slightly above. They are going for LEED Platinum.
I am not sure if they have considered steel sips... you should consider sending them your information.
Anyone have any thoughts on this use of Hardie Panels? I like the look and it looks like it is an efficient use. Does anyone have any experience with an install like this? |
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Jelly
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| 10/08/2008 3:04 AM |
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| Pic looks great, tlynch. I'm not sure how raw steel SIPS would look compared to that - I'm thinking they might make it look more like a transmission service center. But Chris, you've got me thinking - there has to be a creative way to paint them to make them look good. No cladding sure would save a ton of money. |
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cmkavala
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| 10/08/2008 6:41 AM |
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Jelly;
I think the 100K house looks commercial to start with
It is a way to save money and the panels can be covered anytime in the future
caulked and painted walls on a commercial building in Tampa......... |
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Chris Kavala
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Jelly
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| 10/08/2008 9:57 AM |
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It would open up even more aesthetic possibilities if the steel SIPS panels were available in something other than the white shadow-line (I think that's what it's called). Can you get them in a smooth finish? I'm guessing the cheapest option though is the one that's readily available.
What kind of paint is on that green building? |
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cmkavala
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| 10/08/2008 10:01 AM |
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Posted By Jelly on 10/08/2008 9:57 AM
It would open up even more aesthetic possibilities if the steel SIPS panels were available in something other than the white shadow-line (I think that's what it's called). Can you get them in a smooth finish? I'm guessing the cheapest option though is the one that's readily available.
What kind of paint is on that green building? Panels are available smooth one side, owner painted building themselves, they used a latex made for metal siding, available at home depot
I personally like the shadowline, better than smooth
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Chris Kavala
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rnortman
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| 10/08/2008 10:58 AM |
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I'm sure we've been around the block on this before, but I would be very worried about not having a cladding over my SIPs, nevermind what the skin material is. Your SIP skins are a structural member, and having structural members exposed to the elements is asking for trouble in the long term. Now, for very low cost housing where you don't necessarily expect a 100 year lifetime, it might make sense, but I think in general buildings should be designed to last for 100 years or more with only cosmetic repairs and maintenance.
So for particular applications where long life is not a design requirement, sure, painted metal SIPs with no additional cladding sounds like a fine, frugal plan. Especially if you don't get a lot of wind-driven rain and freeze/thaw cycles. But I wouldn't do it on my own house.
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Jelly
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| 10/08/2008 11:08 AM |
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| Chris, I assume shadowline refers to the lines which simulate vertical siding, or does it refer to the dimpled orange peel texture? Wish I could see one of these things in person. Do you have any pictures of the smooth finish? I think it would look good with a metallic paint, like an ice blue Cadillac or something. One could even apply it in a couple of different values and end up with something sort of like tlynch's pic at the top. |
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tlynch
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| 10/08/2008 11:37 AM |
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Chris -
How much would a simple shed like the one you have above cost to construct - just the steel shell? If it would have a 30 year lifespan just painted, and it is cheap enough, you could build your home within it in such a way that in 30-40 years it could be torn down and a new shell could be constructed around your home. Could the roof panels have a roofing material pre-applied - or what would you suggest for that?
Consider this - a poured concrete on grade foundation. Leaving an exposed concrete floor. One or two 20' x 8' shipping container pods that contain all mechanicals / bathrooms / kitchen for the house that get trucked in and dropped off in place and hooked up in a day. And then a very simple steel sided sip envelope quickly gets build around the hole thing. House could be livable in less than two weeks after construction starts, likely less.
I would much prefer an industrial look to the outside of my building than the shadowline. Corrugated could look good. Or even like the outside of a shipping container could be interesting.
Todd |
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cmkavala
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cmkavala
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| 10/08/2008 1:46 PM |
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The steel panel building is expected to have a life expectancy of 300+ years without additional paint. On "simple" gable, shed or hip roofs ( no valleys) panel joints can be simply taped and last for decades without any additional cladding
It would be more than 2 weeks to make liveable - you left out interior studs, wiring ,drywall, etc.
the bare look is not my taste , but if you wanted to get down & dirty , no other SIP could touch a steel SIP for its economy. |
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Chris Kavala
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cmkavala
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| 10/08/2008 1:51 PM |
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Posted By rnortman on 10/08/2008 10:58 AM
So for particular applications where long life is not a design requirement, sure, painted metal SIPs with no additional cladding sounds like a fine, frugal plan. Especially if you don't get a lot of wind-driven rain and freeze/thaw cycles. But I wouldn't do it on my own house.
I wouldn't do in on my own house either, I did do it on my warehouse.
I guess you didn't see the previosly posted accelerated aging test for steel vs. OSB here it is again
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Attachment: AcceleratedAgingTestreport.pdf
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Chris Kavala
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tlynch
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| 10/08/2008 1:59 PM |
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Chris -
The pods would include electrical outlets built in to their sides.
They would be completely prepared off site, delivered ready for water and electrical hookup. Possibly they would use an on demand water heater built into each pod that would provide the hot water for the appliances / fixtures in that pod.
They would either include hookups to attach to radiant heat tubes or vents on their sides for forced air heat / air conditioning.
The pods would act as dividers breaking up the main living space into living / dining / kitchen.
A couple walls would have to be installed to make the bedrooms, but a simple drywall partition can be built in a day or two. |
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rnortman
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| 10/08/2008 2:01 PM |
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Posted By cmkavala on 10/08/2008 1:46 PM
The steel panel building is expected to have a life expectancy of 300+ years without additional paint. On "simple" gable, shed or hip roofs ( no valleys) panel joints can be simply taped and last for decades without any additional cladding
Until the building settles slightly and opens up one of those seams, or the UV exposure and/or freeze/thaw cycles get the better of some adhesive or caulking somewhere and some moisture slips in and starts wreaking havoc. And don't forget about the moisture that got trapped in there when you first taped the seams, which now has nowhere to go. And what about that nail hole that somebody made without thinking about the effect that would have on the structure?
What you're talking about is a "perfect barrier" type of system. It is much sought after, but never seems to be acheived. There are no perfect barriers, which is why drained cladding (and/or highly breathable structure) is the best way to make a durable wall/roof. How are you going to repair your perfect barrier when it gets damaged by a riding mower? It's a structural member -- you can't easily rip it out and replace it, so you have to patch it somehow.
But I do like the economy of unclad steel SIPs, for certain types of buildings. Like a shed or small warehouse or shop building. Or low cost housing. Or when the structure of the building comes from an internal frame, so that the SIPs themselves are simply cladding rather than structure.
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rnortman
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| 10/08/2008 2:07 PM |
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Posted By cmkavala on 10/08/2008 1:51 PM Posted By rnortman on 10/08/2008 10:58 AM
So for particular applications where long life is not a design requirement, sure, painted metal SIPs with no additional cladding sounds like a fine, frugal plan. Especially if you don't get a lot of wind-driven rain and freeze/thaw cycles. But I wouldn't do it on my own house.
I wouldn't do in on my own house either, I did do it on my warehouse. I guess you didn't see the previosly posted accelerated aging test for steel vs. OSB here it is again
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tlynch
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| 10/08/2008 2:28 PM |
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| Getting back to the original question - any comments on that use of Hardie board? Anyone install anything like this? What type of channels did you use between the vertical joints? Photos? |
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cmkavala
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| 10/08/2008 3:36 PM |
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Posted By tlynch on 10/08/2008 2:28 PM
Getting back to the original question - any comments on that use of Hardie board? Anyone install anything like this? What type of channels did you use between the vertical joints? Photos? I don't think it is a hardie-approved application, it would most likely need battens & a z channel
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Chris Kavala
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slenzen
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| 10/10/2008 2:33 PM |
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With a little design help, metal sip homes can look pretty good. That is if you like the modern style.
I like this style, combo of stucco and corrugated. Do metal sips come in a stucco texture?
Modern Home
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tlynch
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| 10/10/2008 2:57 PM |
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| I read further on the 100k house and I think they decided to forgo the Hardie board and they went with Stucco and are planning on saving half their siding cost. |
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