|
|
You are not authorized to post a reply.
|
 Prev Next
|
| Author |
Messages |
|
sespe
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:2
 |
| 01/29/2009 3:32 PM |
|
Searching the archive it seems this subject has not been discussed recently or in great detail. I would appreciate any opinions on the following.
I plan on building a green home in the near future and have had a hard time deciding what the walls should be made of. What I have narrowed it down to...
1. Strawbale. Pros: high R value, green product. Cons: 5-10% above traditional building cost, not a huge fan of the look.
2. SIP. Pros: high R value, easy product to work with. Cons: expensive, not a green product.
Agriboard seems like a good idea. It has all the positive aspects of traditional SIPs while not being made from petroleum. The only downside I see is you need a crane and they are $10psf.
Can anyone add to this to help me decide what would be best? I live in the SW US, hot summers are main concern. Tryin to keep construction costs below $200psf. Thank you in advance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
SimonD
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:94
|
| 01/29/2009 5:18 PM |
|
| Those panels are made from petroleum, although indirectly, through the manuf. plants use of power to make them. At the moment, you will be hard pressed to avoid using plastic foam cores in your choice of SIPs and still keep costs down. If you thoroughly trace the energy cycle of a building material through, even considering it's ability to be recycled in the future then you may have to re-evaluate which materials are truly 'greener' than others. |
|
Building Designer
PANELfusion, LLC, Tampa, FL
simon@panelfusion(dot com)
"Metal SIP Advocate" |
|
|
The Sipper
Registered Users
Basic Member
Posts:133
|
| 01/29/2009 8:05 PM |
|
Comments from a proponent of OSB/EPS SIPs
1. I would never try to discourage anyone from building a strawbale home if that's what they really want. I've been involved in
a number of such projects with Strawbale Walls, and SIP roofs, sometimes with SIP Gable Ends, and a SIP "Top Plate",
and once, a SIP floor system. However, if you're "not a fan of the look" then you probably don't want to go this route. I
won't even try to get into all of the particulars to consider when you're looking at straw bale construction, there are
volumes of material on this topic both in print, and on the internet. I think that the cost is considerably higher than an
additional 5% to 10% over conventional construction, if the work is performed by a strawbale pro (including interior and
exterior finishes. Of course an "owner/builder" can handle almost any construction project for less....IF...they know what
they're doing.
2. SIPs (That's been my business for the past 15 years but I'm not going to use this forum to try to drum up business.....at
least not today.........maybe tomorrow) Just plain old OSB/EPS SIPs, good supply source, easy to work with, approved
almost everywhere (special certification required in some states and municipalities, eg Oregon, California, Los Angeles)
In regards to SIPs not being "Green". The USGBC LEED program allows points for SIPs (The particular brand of SIPs that I
represent has been utilized in connection with numerous LEED certified projects throughout the U.S., many of them at
the Platinum Level. There is a US Dept of Energy report that states that " SIPs are at least 66% more energy efficient..."
(When compared to conventional framed construction) Of course blown in foam, or cellulose, narrows that difference
substantially, but you still have the "thermal short" effect of studs at 16", or 24", on center. It is my contention that if you
attempt to meet the same thermal performance of SIPs with a framed system (blown in foam, foam sheathing, staggered
studs, etc you're going to approach, or exceed, the coast of SIPs, without the benefit of the interior sheathing, which the
drywall, and trim guy, love, for obvious reasons)
Other major benefits of SIPs is the sustainability factor of using less dimensional lumber, and less waste in the landfill.
As far as EPS being a "petroleum product", EPS is over 90% air with pentane, used as a blowing agent during the
production process being a very small percentage of the final product. Also, EPS does not contain CFC's, HFC's, or HCFC's.
Major SIP manufacturer list the "green" benefits of their products on their websites.
Now, all of you "pros" out there, understand that I've addressed this over simlpified description of SIPs and EPS to Sespe's
questions and comments. I'm sure that he can go back and read previous posts regarding the pros and cons of
polyurethane foam vs EPS, etc., OSB skins vs steel vs fiber cement vs magnesium oxide, etc etc, and he can research all of
the SIP manufacturers' websites, and google or yahoo all of the key words for vast amounts of information in connection
with all of these options. Having said that, I'm just thinking that we don't need to rehash these debates on this thread.
Regarding the comment that SIPs are "Expensive", My contention is that they are competitive with "good quality"
conventional construction, in most areas of the US, particularly in areas where there is a need for good thermal performance,
and/or better than average structural characteristics.
3. Agriboard: Seems like a good idea, As noted in the original post, they're very heavy, leading to more onsite handling
equipment, probably a higher labor cost. Straw, while a natural waste by product, is not as good an insulator as foam,
meaning that panels need to be thicker, thus even heavier, and more shipping volume. To the best of my knowledge
they're still not approved for use in at least two of the places that I mention earlier in this post.
4. I would think that you could build a nice SIP home in the SW US for $ 200 psf, or a little less. My suggestion is to find a
good design/build team that is experienced with SIPs, keep the design simple and straight forward, and the amenities
moderate. I'm pretty sure that you're going to get some interest from a number of such parties, and it'll be up to you to
determine which of them offers the best combination of products and services to meet your need.
Enjoy the "adventure"!
|
|
|
|
|
sespe
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:2
|
| 01/29/2009 9:16 PM |
|
| The Sipper got me thinking. I did a search for 'Agriboard home California' and got....nothing. I am thinking it might not be approved here. Looking like less of an option. I should not have written that SIPs are not green. They just aren't as green as I would like them to be. I suppose if there was a perfect option everyone would be using it. Thanks for the input. |
|
|
|
|
cmkavala
Registered Users
Veteran Member
Posts:1415
|
| 01/30/2009 8:38 AM |
|
Posted By sespe on 01/29/2009 3:32 PM
Can anyone add to this to help me decide what would be best? I live in the SW US, hot summers are main concern. Tryin to keep construction costs below $200psf. Thank you in advance.
Sorry we are not in the SW, we build "turnkey" steel SIP homes in the SE starting $105. psf (100 mi radius Tampa bay)
|
|
Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
|
|
The Sipper
Registered Users
Basic Member
Posts:133
|
| 01/31/2009 1:39 AM |
|
So, Sespe, Does that mean that you're building in California? If so there are several SIP manufacturers who have the State of California HCD title 25 certification for use in the state. Actually, I've never seen a post to this effect on this forum but there have been some horror stories about non certified SIPs being brought into California, in most cases due to the fact that the client and the SIP provider were unaware of this requirement. There is a price tag to obtain the certification, to cover periodic 3rd party inspections, and for a decal that must be attached to every panel.
O.K. so here's the website for one of these Cailifornia "certified" SIP manufacturers: www.r-control.com I'm sure that the other 4 (I think that's the correct number) will likely appear in this thread very soon.
Good luck with your search for "The best house that you can afford to build" after all, that's what this is all about isn't it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
| You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
|
|
ActiveForums 3.6
|
Professionals Serving
Your Location:
|