Hi all,

        Reading pages after pages on this site never stops amazing me. The amount of gathered
knowledge on a this single site is priceless. ok nuff said, here's my dilemma...

I'm building my next house ( ICF )myself with the help of my 2 hockey teams which includes
almost all of the trades. I find that it is difficult to find "free" advice when you're a self-builder and
specialy if it's ICF...

My Problem right now is  choosing the kind of heating i need for my house... My present house is a bi-generation house
with everything in double.. W/D - DW - 2x60gallon - F/S all of it !! the basement is made of ICF, the walls are 2x6
with all the works: NovaBrick, tyvek, aspenite,fiberglass,reflecting paper, 20mil barrier and finally the gyprock.

The windows are Low-E double thermo with argon and the roof insulation is a good 16 inch od cellulose.

With everything in double + , 4 tv running 8+ hours a day, 4 computer on 24/24 and heated with baseboards
the garage kept at 10 celcius AND living in Quebec.. my annual electricity cost is 2808$ @ 9.6cent a KW

My next house is around 10400sf including garage and rooms under the garages and basement ( plan included )
I got quoted 17000$CAN for a 25w ( 5 ton ) electric heater furnace with 8 ton of ducts with installation, humidifier
air echanger/heat retriever and something else i dont remember...

I know it's a good price but like the guy said it will not keep the basement slab at a confortable temp. He suggest
a good carpet....

I'm looking into Radiant hydronic floor, but since no one can give me some sound advice in what I actually need ( because it's ICF
and it's not really known around here ) i'm a little overwhelmed. Plus, integrating the pex in the basement slab is fine, but the
idea of doing myself pours at the 1st and 2nd floors kinda gives my the jitters.

Any ideas as to what is better for my house? Heat Pump, Electric furnace, radiant.... ?

Francis

Francis,
You will find that radiant heating is king. You will love it. And, if you don't have access to natural gas, they do manufacture electric boilers.

The big question is: Do you require air conditioning?

Also, what you'll need to start with is a Heat Loss calculation. This will tell you how much heat that you'll need. For above grade areas, your floors will need to be engineered to handle the extra weight of gypcrete or light weight concrete. There are also other non-concrete products that will allow you to install radiant above grade. Warmboard is one such product. If that isn't feasible, European style baseboard radiators are very nice. Check out Runtal.

If you don't go with a forced air system(you'll like radiant better) you'll probably also need an ERV/HRV to supply you with fresh air.

Good Luck!

Hi Jc,

Thanks for the reply... I find myself looking more and more at my initial deal of 17000$ for
the 5 ton Electric furnace, 8 ton ducting etc etc + installation, And because of the possibily
of cooling in the summer.

Since my basement slab will only need to be warm 2 days a week ( fri-sat ) i'm looking into
getting both system, but something really cheap for the actual use i will be needing in radiant floor...

The structural detail is already made for concrete/gypcrete on the other floors... All the planning
,quotes etc etc is done.. can't believe i'm stuck at the central heating lollll

I still wonder of the effiency of simply tacking the pex to the joist.. My friend has a log house of
over 3000sf ans everyhing is cosy and warm with simple pex under the floor not even insulated..

Francis

Ps: I checked the warmboard system, very nice, but oh so expensive !!!!

I've been looking High and Low, and calling several places near here ( Montreal,Qc ) for
a Heat Loss Calculation for my ICF house, either I get the look 'cause they do not knoe what
i'm talking about or the simply tell me that it's impossible to calculate for ICF.

Geez, Maybe ICF isn't known enough around these parts to get the right infos about it...

So my question.. How much $$ does it cost to get it done Online with supplied plan

Francis

Francis,
If you do the work(measurements, materials R-Value, and PC time), it's free. We have a Heat Loss Calculator on our website. It's a Java applet and it has a Help file.

What is critical is the R-Value that you use for the walls. What I recommend is the actual R-Value from the manufacturer of the blocks. If you use the 'Effective' R-Value and not the actual R-Value. You may underestimate your true heating needs.

Enjoy!

Not sure why you are not considering Geothermal Heat Pump? Your electrical costs will be halved as well as getting hot water, cooling etc.

Go talk to these guys in Montreal:

Les Installations Géothermix Inc.  (Distributor)
Centre de Commerce Mondial
380 St-Antoine Ouest, Suite 7100
Montréal, QC  H2Y 3X7
Ph: 514 351-3324
Cell: 514 821-7297
Fax: 514 351-3324
Contact: Yvan René
[email protected]
www.geothermix.com

Boreal Geothermal Inc.  (Distributor)
785 Amherst St, Unit #7
Montr éal , QC  H2L 5E8
Ph: 450 534-0203
Fax: 514 221-3448
Cell:514 886-0682
Contact: Alexander Lokshin
[email protected]
www.boreal-geothermal.com

   Hi Francis,  As a builder of Five Star Plus Homes, I would recommend a low temperature water heater based radiant system for all floors.  The basement slab should have pex tubing cast into it and the floors above should use a staple-up system in the joist bays.  If you would like to email me, I will be glad to provide additional information.  My email is [email protected]                     

Al

 

Now, why would a staple up system in a joist bay be a first recommendation for a "low temperature" radiant system?

In an ICF house, it may be low temp, but this floorplan has some serious glass in it. I see a couple of rooms here that may very well require supplemental heat, even if this is ICF, in this climate.

Also, if rooms are only to be heated a couple days a week, a slab radiant system is a horrible idea. I would pipe the concrete anyway for a future day when consistent heat is required, because pipe is cheap (and I'm biased) but heating up a mass of concrete every week just to let it lose all that heat at the end of the weekend would likely use twice as much energy as you would otherwise need to heat the basement. I would, as another poster stated, consider a good carpet. When consistently heating a space, slab is great. Not so great for periodic use.

Francis,

Don't know if you've already made your decisions but thought i'd add another option to your mix.  We built a 4300 sft concrete home in Maryland - 2 stories plus full basement - all exterior walls and interior stairwell are ICF (AAB BlueMaxx), floors are concrete (Lite-Deck on 1st and 2nd floors).  Radiant floor heating throughout with PEX tubing.  4-ton Geothermal heat pump that supplies floor heat, domestic hot water, and air conditioning with a water-to-air exchange.  We chose a Unico mini-duct system because of limited space.  Last year, our electrical bill was $3300 (with all fees, avg $/kwh=11.9c).  We have 2 home offices.  Summers are long and hot.  We have a very low pitch metal roof, we conditioned the small attic and insulated it(spray-on closed-cell foam).  Have whole-house ventilation (Venmar).  Hope this is helpful.  - Dawn B.

Hi Rob and Dawn,

Rob you are right about the glass in the house, we are getting some windows removed from the plan. Architects if not givin' limitations
in drawing the plans and budgets, will go nuts on you lollll... Dawn, The 3300$ sounds steap considering its geothermal. Can you break it down a little?

We're are not A/C dependant in the summer.. except for a couple of days. We will not be heating the garages and after checking our Top Hydro rate is
7.3c ( 5.6c first 50kw )... We got suggested by arit a 4 ton w/w and 3 ton w/a. radiant basement slab and joist heated radiant with plates for the main floor.

Francis

There is a book on Radiant Heating and Cooling by Richard Watson and Kirby Chapman with all kinds of data and info on how best to plan the heating/cooling system. McGraw Hill Publisher
http://www.aboveradiant.com/
(800) 544-5182 Mr Watson also manufactures Ceiling mounted electric radiant heating panels that use long wave infrared to heat buildings.

TnVanMan

That's a great book tnvanman, but it's that is a hardcore.. and I mean HARD CORE... engineering text, not a layman's guide.