Has anyone had any experince with Warmbord subfloor?

Perfect in many areas for new construction.

Thanks for pointing out this manufacturer. Are there other non-concrete flooring systems that can be used for hyrdonic infloor? How do they compare?

I was told by an architect on Saturday that hydronic heating required a floor consisting of at least a few inches of concrete meaning much higher structural demands to carry the weight. Clearly he didn't know what he was talking about! I'll be crossing that architect off my list.

Have a look at our RHT Floor panel system, surface mounted after construction, 1/2 the cost

Sandwich systems are not typically exactly comparable to warmboard... that is, you take a performance hit with that cost savings... including the RHT variant. However, it is often a fine choice if the increased labor and reduced output are not a concern for a given system. In new construction with paid installation labor, the economics of warmboard may make more sense than in a retrofit DIY situation, for example.

Thanks for the info I took a look at the site and it looks like this goes over the subfloor and a small metal pc covers the tubing to transfer the heat. Do not know how efficant heat tranfer is compared to the WarmBoard product  it  looks to me that the warmboard  would be more  efficant  due to  the tranfer of the hear fom the tube  is into  a metal  covering of the 1"1/8 board which is also the sub floor which cuts material use (Greener) in the overalll job. THe oly draw back is the price at @5.99 a 4x8 panel it is expensive . Have not done a cost comparson to other methods yet.
Thanks for the info
Dalladoso

RHT Floor panel system actually uses the RHT heat transfer plates, 5 inch x24 inch aluminum. You do not see them as they are captured under the plywood infill. There are some builders that use them grove down exposing more of the plate. The advantage of this type of system over warmboard is not only cost (usually about $3.00 sq ft including pipe, plates, turns and site purchased 3/4 ply for infill) but also the pex pipe can be installed after framing all interior walls or even after sheet rock and paint. Minimizing the potential damage to the pex caused by the tradesmen during the course of construction. Protecting the pipe during the course of construction is not easy. Further the sub floor can be placed more quickly by your builder and of thinner plywood, your architect will be able to advise in that. In the end having the tradesmen not concerned about damaging exposed pipes 12 inches on center through out the building will save labor/time cost.
Dan

Why would you put the plates under the infill? That seems kind of backwards?

RHT panel heat transfer plates exposed or captured. Ether way works fine, We have some builders that do exactly as you prefer with plates up pipe exposed, and in fact the plywood infill can be ripped to a 6 inch pattern, extending the fill material. On job sites where pipe will be exposed to traffic the plates add a layer of protection to the pipe during construction. ultimately the platform is heated much like a topping pour, but as I said it can be done ether way.
The main concept we provide here is that we have brought to market the surface mount sandwich system to an affordable level with out shipping and entire sub floor cross country. By designing to a 1/2 pex pipe, Circuit runs are extended minimizing returns to the manifold.

I won't post a "pitch" here - for that, you can contact us at 877-338-5493 to get the whole story. However, I will address a couple of factual points:

First, the tubing protection issue. Warmboard frequently designs for a later tubing installation, which places the risk of tubing damage at the same level as RHT.

Second, there is no better labor savings than doing two things with one motion - Warmboard installs as the primary structural subfloor with only marginal extra labor compared to standard subfloor. Since we do the shop drawings, we take the guesswork out of the layout and the carpenters who use us frequently comment on the high quality and ease of use of our drawings. As NRT.Rob noted, Warmboard is best used in new construction to capture all of the labor benefits, but we have seen Warmboard in many retrofits across the country.

Third, when figuring costs, you must include the cost of the entire floor assembly effected by each product, including the labor. Comparing the RHT product to Warmboard, you must include the cost of the subfloor and the extra labor to fasten the RHT down. You must also include the extra fasteners. There may still be a difference in cost, but it also brings a significant difference in performance (I believe NRT.Rob has addressed that issue many times in these forums).

Finally, the aluminum coverage of Warmboard is contiguous across the entire face of the board, and thus the entire platform of the home, which helps drives down the water temperatures needed to meet the BTU demand and eliminates the striping between the tubes. Elimination of striping removes the need to tighten the tube spacing to anything less than 12" - that would simply use more tube and manifold connections with no gain in BTU output.

No disrespect to Blueridge intended - I have actually sent customers to Blueridge for hydronic supplies. RHT Pex-Al-Pex tubing is also included on our Approved Tubing list.

Barry E. LaDuke
Warmboard, Inc.
Portland, OR

Thanks Barry
I have got all the details from you guys and I am sold on the product. To protect the tubing do you suggest covering the floor during construction?
Bob
Dalladoso

Bob:

Only if you put the tubing in before walls go up. If you do as I referred to above, have us design for a later tubing installation, no protection is needed.

Be sure to stay in close contact with your regional and project management team at Warmboard for your area. They are here to assist you and any of your trades people for a successful and trouble-free installation.

Barry

Thanks
that makes me feel better Chuck Sreliz sent me some info and a sample to me
Bob

We've done some rearranging of territories in the last year, so your project manager contact is now Chris Boardman. He can be reached at 877-338-5493.

Anyone who answers the phone at Warmboard will direct you to the appropriate person when you tell them your location and the state in which you'll be building.

Barry

Another alternative to Warmboard is Roth panels (www.roth-usa.com). Those are 2' x 4' panels made of aluminum plate adhered to styrofoam with tube channels formed into them similar to Warmboard. The advantage to them is cost plus the insulation you need under the tubes is built in. The drawback is fastening flooring onto them isn't as straightforward as it would be on Warmboard and you do need to install subflooring. You will need to plan on insulating the underside of the Warmboard.

In my thinking an ideal floor panel would be a sandwich panel of wood, insulation, and wood, combining the best of Warmboard and Roth panels, i.e., sort of a SIP with a Warmboard type top layer.

If you're open to considering a different radiant system altogether take a look at www.bekausa.com. They offer a tubing system that is installed in the ceiling, either by plastering it in or by laying it on top of the ceiling sheetrock. That system will allow you to have radiant cooling also. A lot of naysayers say it isn't practical but it is. It's just not as easy and straightforward design as floor radiant.

If you're building an ICF or SIP house smaller than, say, 2000 to 3000 SF, and your heat and cooling load is relatively small, you might want to consider the Daikin air to air heat pump system. It will give you nearly the same performance as a geo source heat pump system down to around 0F for less capital expense.

I opted to use the Daikin system in my 2000 SF ICF house in SW Idaho where the winter design temp is 9F because the heat load is so small and geo source heat pump with radiant heat wasn't cost justifiable. I really wanted to go geo source and radiant but common sense overruled. I'm using the crawl space for the supply plenum so that gives me a nice warm floor, but not as warm as in floor radiant would be.

Thanks for the suggestions I think the Daikin system may not work as the house will be @5,000 sqft (ouch) Was looking at the Unico system for both heat and A/C which we hope not to use much.  and use Reni takeless hot water heaters. We have our on well and gas is avalibel to site. Was also looking into solar panels to reduce elec cost.
Thanks for the info
Bob

Tankless water heaters are not boilers.

Boilers with indirect water heaters negate the need for tankless.

Get yourself a nice Mod-Con instead.

These systems seem to be a good idea. Could someone please provide some idea of pricing? Maybe a general guide as to the material cost per sq. foot would be enough to start with.

Prices vary. Talk to your local contractors and ask them about radiant floor and boilers. The smart ones will have quick answers and pictures at the ready. Beware the net sell direct distributors and "free" design services.

With our systems, RHT heat transfer plates and turns, RHT 1/2 barrier pex Including locally purchased 3/4 plywood the average cost is about 2.75 per sq foot. I can not speak to the cost of warm board of Roth panel. I suspect that there are substantial differences between those products. all of these products offer some form of design service. As Barry from warm board points out this is not a format for the pitch, I will be glad to offer more information as needed by phone. 866 361 4782
Dan