Hello all, I need some help deciding on heating options for a small renovation that will remove an old cast-iron radiator.

Main question is, do I utilize a "staple-up" system to heat the space or utilize a series of Runtal or similar panel radiators? My wife would prefer the staple-up but I'm not sure that is the best way to proceed. Additional information below. Any help/thoughts is/are appreciated!

Garret

I am adding a door to my kitchen, which will move a cast-iron radiator that is 660mm tall and around 27 fins. Estimate that to be ~6700-6900 BTU (based simply on an online calculator so possibly useless). Floor of kitchen is linoleum over 1" tongue and groove.

I am also adding a small pantry and bathroom.

Kitchen is ~8'4"h X 9'w X 16'l
Bath/powder 8'4"h X 5'w x 6'l
Pantry 8'4"'h x 3'w X 4'l


These rooms are on the north side of my house, built 1930, true 2x4 walls with no cavity insulation, Minneapolis MN.

I plan on adding either CCspf or Cellulose to cavity during renovation. Other walls in the house will have to use cellulose and will do so after renovation is complete.

I am in the process of removing the old basement ceiling to the joists and will have access. Basement is not insulated at this time, on tap is 2" XPS on floor ~R20 on walls (basement insulation wall build not decided).

Boiler is a 1960's boiler, guessing water temps of 170-180 but I'm not sure (how to check?)

The first step is to do a proper heat load analysis for each room. This will determine the actual btus needed. Look at your boiler thermostat setting this will tell you what your boiler is currently set at. Staple up has limitations. If you planning on using pex tubing you will need to be concerned with temperature as pex is rated at 180F maximum.Would definately not want to push pex tubing at its maximum rating.

Hmm... I would suspect that the heat load analysis would be affected by the later addition of insulation to the house. Is this a correct assumption? How does this work into the analysis if the load is calculated today? I'm not adverse to a heat-load analysis, I just recognize that the heat loads will be reduced as we insulate and tighten up the envelope.

I was skeptical of staple-up mainly because we are trying to push heat through the subfloor and finished floor and as you indicated, temps would likely have to be high. It just seems that the euro-panel radiators would be more efficient but less "sexy". Finished floor is going to be tile, however. But that is what rugs are for.

the calc would be done for the state of the home you want to heat. you should always do envelope improvements first.

depending on heat load and finish floor, heavy plate staple up can be lower temp than panel radiators. naked staple up, probably not. could always do a hybrid radiator/suspended tube as well if loads are midrage or higher.

Posted By NRT.Rob on 03 Oct 2011 01:47 PM
the calc would be done for the state of the home you want to heat. you should always do envelope improvements first.

Thanks for the reply! Is the heat-load analysis "measured" real-world condition or "calculated". As in, could a heating system be designed a particular anticipated load based on room dimension, window, orientation and insulation etc., and supplement with temp heat sources until labor/installation of the actual installation is performed. Please excuse my ignorance.

calculated, usually. typically you leave whatever is doing the job now in place until you are ready to change the situation. so you could install whatever you are going to switch to in the joists now, for example, but you wouldn't remove the currently operable radiation until you were looking to improve the insulation.

Why guess? We do heat loads as is, and as built. In Minneapolis we include high density foam in our bids for space heating kitchen remodels. Foam insulation gives you the best chance of being able to heat the kitchen with radiant floors after removing a cast iron radiator. We often use combination radiant sub-floor panels as Rob suggests (we never use bare PEX tube below a floor in Minnesota) and toe kicks for the coldest months when we must.

First, a room-by-room heat load to determine viable radiation, design temperatures and future options.

The load for a single room will not generally be affected by changes to the rest of the house. It is why all radiant floor systems should start with a room-by-room. This simple standard is even more important when remodeling with radiant floors. http://www.badgerboilerservice.com/contractor.html