O2 barrier pex
Last Post 09 Sep 2012 12:23 PM by MikeSolar. 6 Replies.
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Drew ReedUser is Offline
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04 Sep 2012 10:13 AM
Is one mfg. better then another for the O2 barrier pex pipe for radiant floors?


Thanks

Drew
NRT.RobUser is Offline
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04 Sep 2012 10:19 AM
there are differences in workability/kinking/fitting systems. they are mostly all rated for similar temperatures/pressures though. some are noisier than others with specific outer layers.
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jonrUser is Offline
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04 Sep 2012 10:36 AM
Consider PERT instead of PEX.
BadgerBoilerMNUser is Offline
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04 Sep 2012 04:56 PM
We have used every available PEX without incident, but as Rob points out. Some are better suited to certain applications.
MA
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MikeSolarUser is Offline
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04 Sep 2012 08:56 PM
Years ago, I got the test data for REHAU and WIRSBO because they were the two best on the market. Ignore the numbers that are needed to get a CSA/UL stamp. These are minimums and the cheap PEX on the market will meet them as well. REHAU was slightly better than WIRSBO P-PEX which has 5 layers of O2 barrier but Wirsbo (now Uponor) decided that 3 layers was cheaper to produce and would have a price advantage over REHAU so it stuck with the HE-PEX in north America. The REHAU has a much better barrier than UPONOR which is why I use it exclusively underslab.

Pert or the PE AL PE tubing is a good alternative and is used a lot in Europe. My only issue with it is that I have made some tight bends with the Kitec product and then cut it carefully to see that in some cases the aluminum broke going around the curve. I don't know if anyone else has had any experience like mine but I would like to know if you did.

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BadgerBoilerMNUser is Offline
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06 Sep 2012 06:17 PM
Oxygen permeability is directly related to design water temperature. Consequently, PEX used for the typical slab radiant panel will likely never see water temperatures above body temperature (my last three designs were in the low 70's). The barrier is the last thing I think about in PEX. It is all better than it needs to be for most low temperature radiant applications. The proof of this it the several million feet of PB we sold in the 90's and billion sold in the world.

We recently replaces a PB snow melting system installed in 1977, which would still be operational but for the neglect of the anti-freeze. It is becoming more difficult for the manufacturers to differentiate their products, thus the emphasis of the irrelevant. If you happen to have a qualified application requiring a 100% oxygen barrier (beyond the industry standards) then a PEX-AL-PEX will be more that sufficient.

What is used in Europe is PB, and various brands of PEX including PEX-B being the most popular here and there, that made with the Saline method...the most competitive and indistinguishable once installed. We use them all preferring a soft PEX-A, for certain applications and rarely pay more for radiant slab PEX since it is the least challenging for any PEX tube. Since Rehau requires and insists on, their own fittings, tools, manifolds etc. those of us that install radiant systems nearly exclusively can't afford to handle one brand, more especially when that one brand is not rated for potable water and space heating. Viega barrier pipe is good for plumbing and heating the lack of waste paying for the inconvenience of using their very convenient and exclusive crimp system.
MA
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MikeSolarUser is Offline
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09 Sep 2012 12:23 PM
Posted By BadgerBoilerMN on 06 Sep 2012 06:17 PM
Oxygen permeability is directly related to design water temperature. Consequently, PEX used for the typical slab radiant panel will likely never see water temperatures above body temperature (my last three designs were in the low 70's). The barrier is the last thing I think about in PEX. It is all better than it needs to be for most low temperature radiant applications. The proof of this it the several million feet of PB we sold in the 90's and billion sold in the world.

We recently replaces a PB snow melting system installed in 1977, which would still be operational but for the neglect of the anti-freeze. It is becoming more difficult for the manufacturers to differentiate their products, thus the emphasis of the irrelevant. If you happen to have a qualified application requiring a 100% oxygen barrier (beyond the industry standards) then a PEX-AL-PEX will be more that sufficient.

What is used in Europe is PB, and various brands of PEX including PEX-B being the most popular here and there, that made with the Saline method...the most competitive and indistinguishable once installed. We use them all preferring a soft PEX-A, for certain applications and rarely pay more for radiant slab PEX since it is the least challenging for any PEX tube. Since Rehau requires and insists on, their own fittings, tools, manifolds etc. those of us that install radiant systems nearly exclusively can't afford to handle one brand, more especially when that one brand is not rated for potable water and space heating. Viega barrier pipe is good for plumbing and heating the lack of waste paying for the inconvenience of using their very convenient and exclusive crimp system.

If PB is so great then why have there been many many law suits due to failures. This is very old news. O2 issues are not ALL about temp and if that were so there would be no issues with using un-barriered tubing in low temp situations. We know there are issues and if I am going to put in a system that I want to outlast me, I will use a better tube. Rehau does not demand that their fittings or manifolds be used with their tubing with one exception, emergency joints underground. From my experience most fittings for REHAU are now made off shore and not by or through REHAU. 

PP is used in Europe for straight piping and I have yet to see a current ad for PB anywhere. PEX-A or B are fine, I see no problem with either. Veiga is good to but what I am hearing from you is mostly your preference due to the way you run your business, which if fine, of course.

No need for a pissing contest.
www.BossSolar.com
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