Anybody know where I can get a quick one room tubing layout room? I need to get done this weekend. I have a 14'x19' basement room that I'm planning on stapling down 1/2" pex to 2" foam insulation for a slab. Any help would be appreciated.

We use Uponor/Wirsbo software to design radiant floor heating systems producing CAD drawings for radiant floors, ceilings and walls big and small.

14x19 = 266
using a 12 inch pattern (typical foe a basement) you will need about 300 feet or less,
make a story pole (2x4) mark with your pencil 6" then 12"12"12" 12" so on. Now take a can of down spray paint mark the foam 6 from the wall then 12" 12" put a spray dot every 7 ' or so. Now starting at the manifold location with the pipe connect the dots, up and back up and back, leave a 12 inch slot at the foot for the return pipe to manifold location. In the end you will have no more pipe and will return to where you started running along the base wall to the point of manifold location.
Thats one way to do it should you not get a lay out.
Dan

I'll bet that software is pricey. My projects have been my shop and now the addition on my house. Next year we pipe the whole house. Not sure if software cost would be justified. Right now, I'm leaking cash like a 100 year old house leaks air.


Thanks Dan, that will help. I used some calculation from eHow.com and it said I needed 560 feet. It didn't sound right so I asked here. I still have 290' left over from my shop project.

We have free heat loss analysis and hydronic radiant floor heating design software on our website. Dan, is correct that for 12 inch spacing the room area is close to the length needed. However, without knowing the room heat loss, don't know if 12 inch spacing is correct.

"without knowing the room heat loss, don't know if 12 inch spacing is correct."

Or knowing what the warm water source is.

12" spacing was suggested to me by a radiant suppy house, even though I told them I was using a GSHP to heat the water. My fault at the time for not looking into it further. Now it's set in stone(cement).

Just saying source of heat needs to be considered.

Chris

The spacing doesn't depend on the heat source, but depends on the required upward heat flux, which depends on the room heat loss. Again, this can be easily determined by using the free software on our website. 12 inch spacing is normally the maximum one would use for residential and is more often the correct spacing than not. One usually considers efficiency, reliability and service life when selecting the heat source.

The optimal (as in best ROI) spacing varies with the heat source. Some heat sources increase efficiency with closer spacing (lower supply temp), some don't.

Posted By ChrisJ on 19 Nov 2013 12:41 PM
"without knowing the room heat loss, don't know if 12 inch spacing is correct."

Or knowing what the warm water source is.

12" spacing was suggested to me by a radiant suppy house, even though I told them I was using a GSHP to heat the water. My fault at the time for not looking into it further. Now it's set in stone(cement).

Just saying source of heat needs to be considered.

Chris

16' x 25' Superior pre-cast walls with R-12.5 insulation. R- 8.6 foam board to be added. Sound insulation in ceiling above. R-10 under the slab. 4" concrete slab. Two 3'x4' windows, double pane argon. Walls are about 60% below grade. Conditioned room above. I would like to use an air to water heat pump, but they seem to be rare. What ever I use I want to keep the temperature on the low side.

I would like to use an air to water heat pump, but they seem to be rare.

You want to install that for a single room?

ICF, Maybe you missed this.

"My projects have been my shop and now the addition on my house. Next year we pipe the whole house."

No way I would use 12" spacing with a heat pump again.

Chris

Posted By ChrisJ on 20 Nov 2013 09:03 AM
ICF, Maybe you missed this.

"My projects have been my shop and now the addition on my house. Next year we pipe the whole house."

No way I would use 12" spacing with a heat pump again.

Chris

What would you use?

As recommended previously despite misinformation to the contrary, you can't properly select the heat source until after you first determine the required supply temp as previously described. The spacing is solely a function of the required heat flux which is solely a function of room heat loss and unblocked heat area.

One homeowner to another, I would go more like 8"-9" spacing.

Chris

I would like to use an air to water heat pump, but they seem to be rare.

I'm having success with a Daikin Altherma in a 5500 HDD Marine Zone 4. Beautiful machine.

I had enough tube to do 8" spacing. I have 12" spacing in our shop and it does just fine, but I figure it's easier to put it in now than to add it later.

The Daikin seems to be the only game in town. From what I've read it's darn expensive.

"I have 12" spacing in our shop and it does just fine"

At what temp does the water go to the floor? What's heating it?

The 12" spacing I have is in the basement and garage, so not trying to heat like living space, it's working OK.

Chris

From what I've read it's darn expensive.

That's relative. All the geo quotes were gob-stoppingly, shockingly more expensive.

I suggest getting a quote to find out. My installation has probably spawned more than a half dozen others by now.

Are there ever situations where geo actually has a positive return on investment? Our impression, rightly or wrongly, has been that geo is a green camo scam. In any event, it seems like geo is always very expensive and often very problematic, sort of like using an under floor approach for hydronic radiant floor heating.

We installed a geo system about 18 years ago in a 4,000 sq. ft timber frame.
Slab basement, main floor platform staple up, upper platform sleeper system.
Geo at that time in Washington added about$10,000.00 for the geo portion of the system ( compressor pump and 6 500' 1" loops in a 250'x6'x6' trench).
The owner is a friend, system still runs like a clock, minimal service, just keeps running.
Utilities for the house (all electric ) are in the 100.00 month range.
I put it in at the owners request, at the time geo was an unknown beast to me.
Cost effective?
Dan