The electric company distributes a boiler they had made for them. I looks very clean and easy to install. http://www.nextgenboiler.com/ We are looking at the 14.4, it would run on there off peak program. Thoughts?

I had not seen this one previously. I like it. It looks like the plug & play units we worked with in Germany several years ago. Perhaps the US is finally starting to catch up with the Europeans with regard to making hydronic radiant floor heating systems more affordable and simple.

Well kinda, I was told these were made or at least originated in Poland.

I didn't mean to imply that these were made in Germany, only that they are similar to the plug & play units that we worked with while in Germany.

While a heat pump solution will have a higher effective COP than an electric boiler having a COP of 1, electric boilers are much simpler systems (i.e., don't require refrigerant and compressors) and are less likely to fail resulting in higher maintenance cost. Electric boilers are also not as adversely affected by short cycling like heat pumps and gas/propane boilers. In short, we like electric boilers, especially in locations where electricity rates are low and knowing that electricity will ultimately become the dominant fuel source.

I knew what you meant. I was saying that the USA is not catching up enough to manufacture them here. I got pricing and the 14.4kw 49,000 btu one is $15xx which is the price of the pre-plumbed panel without the boiler, and the NextGen replace both.

Agreed, there is a strong lobby system and politics that tends to maintain the status quo here until the billionaires have an opportunity to changes seats and control where the money goes. Yes, I have seen some crazy high prices for pre-plumbed panels. However, if one doesn't have basic plumbing skills or and doesn't know any better...there is demand and a market is created.

Just finishing bracing my basement ICF wall today so it will be a little while before I actually buy and install a boiler. But I have been researching small boilers for quite a while now. The Nextgen along with the Thermo2000 are on my short list with the nextgen being on top. Had a few back and forths with nextgen before they finally got me in touch with a distributor who would sell to an owner/builder but they made it happen. Had a similar issue with Thermo 2000 also but I have quotes for both now The nextgen is more expensive but when I add up all I will need to finish out any other boiler it becomes comparable and a whole lot less work for me.

The nextgen also has some added features such as a bypass regulator valve if you are using zone valves. This valve recircs fluid and helps maintain a consistent flow thru the manifolds regardless of how many zones are actually calling for heat. They also use solid state switching SCR's to control the heating elements. They bonded the heat sync of these components to the cold water return copper pipe to form a liquid cooled heat sync to extend component life(both good design features).

The controllers on the thermo and nextgen are similar. The thermo has 4 outdoor reset curves but the nextgen offers 9 different curves so you can taylor it's performance a little more closely to match your installation and environmental conditions.

The good design, features and the much cleaner installation has me leaning strongly toward the nextgen.

The nextgen and thermo both have external control contact inputs that can control when they will operate the heating elements. This input will make them easy to integrate with another heat source(oil or gas boiler or a solar or heat pump charged storage tank) or to have them run only during off-peak hours, either via utility control or a timer...

IF you get a nextgen, I will be very curious how well it works out for you

Good Luck.

Nice Ronmar, I love SCRs...especially ones that are water cooled! I am very familiar with the Thermo and it is good unit. I wasn't familiar with Nextgen, but I expect that will soon change :-)

I am installing a NexGen in my new design studio for its previously mentioned attributes and the shear space-saving aspects.

The I will also have a back-up condensing propane boiler as mandated by our interrupt-able power agreement, so the off-peak relay is handy, though fairly common with residential electric boilers today.

Slick

Like any electric boiler, it's only as green as the grid that supports it and has only a fraction of the efficiency of a heat pump solution. In almost every market in the US except the Pacific Northwest an electric boiler is several times more carbon intensive than a condensing natural gas boiler.

There is a ground source heat pump for the house. No natural gas in the area, LP. The garage has passive solar and a wood stove for additional heat sources. The electric company only shuts off the 60% discounted, controlled electric 2-4 times a heating season. I think the electric boiler is a good fit.

In Minnesota the off peak power is increasingly being sourced by wind power, which has extremely low marginal cost, and sometimes drives the LMP into negative territory when there's low demand.

14.4k is 49,000 BTU/hr- quite a lot of heat for a garage (unless it's a garage for a fleet of construction equipment trucks.)

With smarter grids auxilliary heaters like these could make a lot of sense as a means of stabilizing the output from variable output sources:

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/could-domestic-water-heaters-be-europes-cheapest-storage-option

The garage is 2953sf, with 12' ceiling. That was a different thread.

ICF and I are on the same page. Though I have installed many electric boilers over the years I never owned own until now. Still, you have to have a backup ,so back to my lil' friend the wall-hung condensing boiler.

A heat pump would work fine but I spent the money on insulation and Fujitsu mini-splits.

I installed the NextGen 14.4kw to my 2950sf garage. Great support from the company. The only issue was the manual suggested combining two 40am 240v breakers, under just two lugs to supply the required 60amps. After double checking on a DIY forum with some electricians. it was suggested this was a bad idea. I installed one 70amp breaker and #4awg wire. It works fine, but with about 4800' of pex the delta T is only about 20 degrees F.

That's great ICFconstruction! We just ordered our first NextGen last week (a -6) and I expect we will be ordering several more soon. Dennis Schramel is the Product Manager of WH Response LLC and he has been great to work with. I mentioned your wiring issue to him for awareness and suggested that he comment. Anyhow, I have been very impressed with the support from this company as well.

Deleted duplicate post and added this link to some additional information on NextGen boilers:

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/12/aft/84241/afv/topic/afpg/1/Default.aspx

Sorry that I am late to the party. We are pleased with the chatter regarding our NextGen Boiler and welcome your business with our unique product. The small electric boiler is certainly innovative with all the components neatly housed in one box resulting in labor savings and space savings for both the contractor and homeowner.
I would like to clarify the electrical wiring to a 12 or 14kw model. UL has certified the product and the installation manual to include 2-40amp circuits. However this can be problematic as there are valid concerns of this wiring practice not accepted by electricians and electrical inspectors. We are in the process of updating our manuals on future boilers through our manufacturing partner Kospel SA. This will indicate the revision of electrical wiring requirements to a single 80 amp breaker on both of these models. We are also asking for UL to draft a letter so we can include this on our website and make it available via email.

Thank you again for your valued business