Here is what I have right now:

1. Thermalboard - This cost $4.26 a square foot for the panel. It is medium grade engineered wood. It has a solid aluminum top surface for heat distribution
2. Roth panel - Cost $3.40 a square foot. This is a board of polystyrene with an aluminum top.

Thermalboard I really like that it is all aluminum top. However, the cheap manufactured wood, which likely will soak up water I do not like. The wood is not good enough to be used as a subfloor either, so a subfloor must go under it

Raupanel, similar to thermalboard, requires a subfloor under it. However, it is good to place insulation above a slab when using an above-slab radiation panel, so this cuts down on the cost of insulation and it is $0.86 cheaper, which the price difference basically covers the cost of the plywood necessary to create the subfloor (which would be needed for either of them).

Warmboard I am aware of, but do not have any official quote. From what I can tell, it is around $8/sqf or so. So, it does not save any costs on insulation. It's main advantage is that the premium version can be used as a subfloor, which saves the cost of the plywood. However, subfloor plywood is only around $1/sqf, so paying a $4 premium to lose out on insulation and save $1 on plywood does not seem like a good tradeoff.

Does anyone know of any others or is basically the Roth Panel the best value and offers the most? Is there any issue having a subfloor that consists of these layers: 1) concrete 2) insulation (rigid foam board) 3) plywood subfloor 4) insulated roth panel 5) vapour barrier 6) thin plywood 7) Vinyl

The one I am not certain about is #5. Also, should a water barrier be placed above the concrete?It seems normal in basement subfloors, but then there is no way for the basement slab to "breathe". And, since the foam is placed directly on it and not wood I assume no water barrier is needed.

1: Is this a new install or a retrofit?
2: When you did your Warmboard pricing, did you price for Warmboard S? Or Warmboard R? (Note: For basement slab retrofits, they recommend the R-product.)
3: I know, at least, from Warmboard, they recommend an R-19 below the subfloor to prevent downward heat migration. That's probably a lot more than you're going to get from anything that'll fit in 1" strapping.

This floor installation is probably going to raise your floor level a minimum of 4" if not more. Make sure to check on the pre-reqs for installation with other products too.
Didn't see insulation specs for Thermalboard.

Roth Panel recommends 1-2" of EPS.

I know lots of DIYers want you to put up some kind of plastic moisture barrier. If you REALLY want to be paranoid about moisture migration, look at a plastic dimple membrane secured with tapcons in holes filled with silicone caulk and tuck-taped seams.
Since you're going to need to insulate the floor anyhow, look at at least 2 layers of offset EPS with seams and borders filled with spray foam. I recommend tuck-taping the joints as well as foaming them.
If you can find a non-Poly product in a foil face, that'd probably help with heat reflectivity. You don't need to use the entire subfloor with this, just the top-most layer.

Roth Panel doesn't mention water sealing (at least that I saw).
Thermalboard has a product (Thermalboard II) meant for on-slab applications. Though you can use the base product. You just need to seal the surface with some sort of applied coating.

Overkill? Probably. But it's overkill meant to cut down on future problems in the flooring.

1) concrete 2) insulation (rigid foam board) 3) plywood subfloor 4) insulated roth panel 5) vapour barrier 6) thin plywood 7) Vinyl

You don't want to trap wood (layer 3) between a damp slab and a vapor barrier. Consider just painting the slab with epoxy or something like Bostik MVP4.

Also consider foam and then a thin slab overlay (no panels, no moisture susceptible wood, no need for a vapor barrier).

I know, at least, from Warmboard, they recommend an R-19 below the subfloor to prevent downward heat migration

Wow, I did not know so much was the recommendation. I planned on 2" of EPS foam(R-10). I guess I will bump it up to 4" with alternating joints as you suggested. Then maybe put a ecofoil radiant foil on top to further try to redirect the heat.

When you did your Warmboard pricing, did you price for Warmboard S?

I don't have any warmboard pricing yet. I just saw some threads posted online and it seemed very expensive. I will give them a shout, but unless they come in at $4-5 I cannot imagine they will be worth it.

You don't want to trap wood (layer 3) between a damp slab and a vapor barrier. Consider just painting the slab with epoxy.

I was also thinking of putting a water barrier over the slab. But, the slab is also the roof of the floor below it. So, if both sides have a water barrier, then where does the water from the concrete go? And, if only one side has the water barrier, then I would assume the other side would somehow need to deal with the moisture coming off the slab.

To solve that, what about a vapour retarder between #2/#3 so the wood is not trapped? That way as the vapour migrates from the slab to the surface it will slowly be able to escape on the warm side and dry out.

There is no harm in the slab never drying out. Foil without an air gap does not block or redirect heat.

Thanks. Have a look at this product which claims 96% heat reflectivity: http://www.ecofoil.com/All-Products/Radiant-Barrier-Perforated They also have a solid sheet too without the perforations. This is two shits of metal with polyethylene woven between the layers.

Are you saying this won't reflect heat back unless there is air underneath the foil? So if it is sitting flat on a surface so there is no air between it and the under-surface it will not reflect heat away from the undersurface?


Update: I read more about reflective radiant barriers and it looks like the airgap is crucial, so no foil then. That would be a waste of money.

Honestly, if you're going with something like Warmboard or Thermalboard, or anything with a more or less continuous aluminum backplate, I wouldn't waste the money on the radiant barrier.  99% of that is going to get taken care of by the backplate layer. 

From there you just want to make it easier for the heat to radiate UP, rather than down.  Hence, insulation.

You need to consider how you will finish the floor. Roth panel is great for covering a concrete slab, but not so good for finishing with tile (low stiffness) or standard wood floor (low fastener strength) . Warmboard can be finished with everything. It is really more for new construction where you first use it as a subfloor, place the PEX tube, and then build the interior walls on top of it. For remodels, sleeper type plate sandwich systems tend to see more use. People from this forum have commented that they like the sandwich system that Dan from BlueRidge Company sells.

Accomplishing HR via a thin gypcrete slab is usually way cheaper than Warmboard or any other above-floor plate system. Of course, material and labor costs can vary greatly based on locale. I would estimate that Warmboard and a thin gypcrete slab perform about equally well. I don’t have any first-hand experience with Dan’s sandwich system performance, but people from this forum have reported that they were happy with it.

We likely do about 90% concrete slab, 5% gypcrete slab and 5% Warmboard. One can usually have a concrete slab HR heating system for less cost than any other heating system option. While HR heating is unquestionably the most comfortable heating system approach bar none (heat at right location, simple, quiet, no drafts), we nevertheless tend to steer folks to mini splits whenever a HR concrete slab isn't an option. However, that's just our mindset/recommendation given that mini splits will significantly out perform any HR heating system that doesn't use a heat pump based heat source. Heat pump based heat sources can get very expensive and can have expensive maintenance issues too. So the lower acquisition cost and lower operational cost of mini splits tend to win that ROI decision for us.

Hi All,
A few points about out RHT Floor Panel System. So it is a cost effective alterative to some of the other top mounted systems or a warmboard sub floor.
We provide a loop layout with purchase. 12 " wide plates are an option.
Typical square foot cost is about $2.75-3.00, RHT barrier pipe, heat plates, our turns, manifold and you purchasing full 3/4" plywood infill ripped to 6" strips.
Delivered water temp is usually good in the 100 degree range. This considerably lower than the temps required for a staple up. Works well with condensing boiler efficiency sweet spot.
If a traditional nail down or floating floor is used pex pipe has to be placed perpendicular to the boards or plank. Tile needs wonder board on top, carpet/sheet goods need a flat surface added like Masonite or some such.
Typical reports and my own applications are that it is about 2 persons 7 hrs for placement of 500 sq ft. This vary on room configurations but once started it goes fast.
There you have it, I think one of the things that helps keep this product cost effective is basically we are not fabricating, boxing, storing & shipping, reselling the entire floor system as the other systems are doing.
This leaves room for large savings as the ripping of the wood is easy. Stack 4x8 sheets flat, snap lines and rip with skill saw.
There you have it,
Dan

Roth panel is great for covering a concrete slab, but not so good for finishing with tile (low stiffness) or standard wood floor (low fastener strength) . Warmboard can be finished with everything.

Are you sure? It looks like both can finish with everything. I am looking at the installation manual of both and they are exactly the same. The stiffness of the roth panel is the plywood that you would have underneath it (or the concrete slab it is placed on). The foams compressive strength is very high so it is not like it will be compressing at all.

Looking at the installation manuals for both, they both require installing some kind of underlayment over the board for vinyl, laminate, tile, etc. So, in either case, cement board or additional plywood need to be placed over them. For hardwood floor, they can be directly attached, but it is the same with the foam. The attachment would just be to the plywood under the foam.

I got a preliminary quote for warmboard, but I need to specify as they did not say whether it was for warmboard-s or warmboard-r. I suspect warmboard-r. And, the quote is over twice the price of Roth panel. here is some comparison:

1) Roth panel provides insulation that would be needed otherwise. So, you save money on insulation

2) Roth panel has aluminum that is 0.02" thick. Warmboard uses 0.025", so it is slightly thicker. However, I am not sure that thickness difference actually matters for heat transfer. I have read that warmboard uses thicker aluminum than necessary because it adds structural strength to their subfloor product, but it does not need to be that thick for heat transfer.

3) Roth panel does not have aluminum topping on the corners of the board only on the straight sections.

So, looking at this, Warmboard provides slightly thicker aluminum which may or may not be needed. It provides aluminum on the corners, so a bit larger area has aluminum than with roth. It's warmboard-R product offers no cost savings in the subfloor layers whereas Roth panels offer insulation value in the subfloor at a cost savings.

The price is that warmboard is more than 2x the cost. In addition, they are less responsive in responding to quotes. I am not sure that an additional $4/sqf can ever be paid back with using the warmboard product versus roth.

Yes, I am sure. The Roth panel foam layer makes installing tile or wood floor very problematic. We got to see this first-hand when we once removed a failed Roth floor installation and replaced it with Warmboard. I think a floating engineered thin wood floor would work fine with Roth panel, especially if you are willing to trade a higher quality installation for a lower quality cheaper installation, which appears to be your be your objective. Otherwise, if you don't have the money to do things right now, perhaps you should wait until you can do so. Again, I am not a big fan of brute forcing HR heating into a building. Just my 2 cents...