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Roth Radiant Panel

Last Post 13 Dec 2023 10:28 PM by Jamesanderson. 5 Replies.

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RGates

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Posts:59

30 Mar 2022 01:15 AM
Has anyone had any experience with Roth Radiant Panels?

sailawayrb User is Offline

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30 Mar 2022 02:40 PM
Roth panel is an above-floor hydronic radiant emitter similar to Warmboard panel. So it is somewhat more efficient than below-floor emitters, but not nearly as efficient as embedded concrete emitters. I haven't checked in a while, but Roth was once maybe about half the cost of WarmBoard. I would consider both to be very expensive compared to embedded concrete emitters when one is already pouring concrete anyhow. The main advantage of these above-floor emitters is for remodeling and for creating highly responsive emitters which are needed in less than energy efficient older buildings. I recall replacing a failed tile Roth panel bathroom floor many years ago with WarmBoard because of inadequate Roth panel stiffness across floor joists because of incompetent installation by the previous HVAC contractor.

Borst Engineering & Construction LLC - Competence, Integrity and Professionalism are integral to all that we do!

RGates

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31 Mar 2022 12:16 AM
Roth is by no means a structural panel. It is a 90 PSI EPS panel with a 24 gauge contiguous sheet. I am looking at this panel for a new construction home. I am going to use it on the first floor floors, 3/4" T&G Fir, and the second floor ceilings. It has an insulation value of R4.5 for 1/2" piping. This works great to keep the heat on the first floor rather than heating the basement. I have radiant in the basement slab. Embedded pipe is definitely the way to go if you are placing concrete. However embedded pipe on existing wood framed floors is costly due to structural design increases and the base materials. The added height of the system with insulation is about 2". The other issue with embedded systems comes about in the shoulder months, when it is freezing at night and 70 during the day. The flywheel effect of the mass of the floor will cook you on those days. I do agree that same effect is wonderful when it is consistently cold out, so a give and take. The dry floor systems obviously respond quicker than the embedded mass system. With regards to the dry systems. Above floor is the obvious answer in new construction due to access. Why drive heat through any more product than you have to. Subsequent to looking at numerous above floor dry systems I think the Roth Panel is hard to beat. You are getting the insulation, a 24 gauge aluminum contiguous heat sink, 6" or 12" pipe spacing, only adds 1" height for 1/2" pipe, an assembly that is extremely light, ONE PIECE, easy to install and a panel with excellent performance based on the Virginia Tech Test. The Roth Panel, according to the infamous Virginia Tech Test, performs extremely well and surpassed Warm Floor panels in a lot of the test parameters. Just about every floor system was represented in the study. Embedded tubing in the study did not get a fair shake do to time allowances for the measurements. In regards to cost. Roth is about $4.00 per sq. ft. I looked at Maxon and USG gypcrete style products. I would have to put down an insulation board, or a Bekotec like product, first then the tubing. Cost is about $6.50 per sq. ft. Soooo, back to my original post, has anyone had any experience with the Roth Panel? Positives - negatives? Bueller, Bueller, Anyone, Anyone. LOL

sailawayrb User is Offline

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31 Mar 2022 01:12 AM
We are not big fans of above-floor emitters because of the low efficiency compared to concrete emitters. We are not big fans of multi level homes either: https://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/12/aft/86467/afv/topic/Default.aspx Concrete emitters and high interior thermal mass is the way to go in energy efficient homes. Our Southern Oregon outdoor temp often has daily variations of 40-50 degrees F and our indoor temp doesn't change even 1 degree F. A well-insulated and well-sealed home with high interior thermal mass is completly insensitive to outdoor temp variations. Whatever you set the thermostat setpoint is what the indoor temp stays at no matter how the outdoor temp changes. You do need to use slab temp sensors and heat source water supply temp outdoor temp compensation. We have 4" thick EPS R16 under-slab insulation. The Roth panel R4.5 insulation seems inadequate to me. 2" thick EPS R10 is the minimum used in most places. This isn't a big issue if the downward heat loss is going to below living space, but temp control becomes more problematic. We always recommend mini splits, especially if you need AC, for new construction before we would recommend above-floor hydronic radiant emitters. Our focus is energy efficient new construction. Anyhow, this was our experience with Roth panels and our thoughts on this subject. Good luck with your project!

Borst Engineering & Construction LLC - Competence, Integrity and Professionalism are integral to all that we do!

RGates

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Posts:59

31 Mar 2022 03:37 AM
I agree with you on the efficiency of the mini splits unfortunately I do not like the look of them. I will be going with radiant cooling and a chiller or ground source system which is an entire conversation in itself LOL. I will already have the infrastructure in place so why not use it for cooling. With a multi floor style construction above floor emitters or ceiling is the only choice. I would prefer to have all of the radiant in the ceilings, however my home is a timber frame with no available ceilings on the first floor. So a floor system is what I will be installing. I agree that if it was a slab on grade home more insulation would be preferred under the system. In my case the basement will already be tempered (radiant in slab) so the Roth panels insulation will assist in keeping the first floor heat where it belongs. I have yet to find another above floor system that addresses the heat loss moving downward without having to insulate the floor joist from underneath. Installing insulation on top of the first floor versus the in the joist bays underneath is waaaay easier and cost effective. I spent a lot of time looking at the pour-able floor options. My biggest issue with the pour-able system is how much moisture will be introduced into the home and ultimately the timbers, floors and ceilings. Then, of course the height of the system followed by the costs. With regards to a one floor house that is a personal preference. The reality is that of all of these decisions are personal choices. If every choice was driven strictly by energy efficiency (EE) and return on investment (ROI) everyone would be living in a cubicle with 3 foot thick walls and ceilings that was being heated by a candle. What a boring world that would be! I am not saying that decision is right or wrong but I will say it is a personal decision. I love the houses that people spend thousands to make it so tight that they need to spend tens of thousands more to add make up air into the house so it is livable. It is the wants and needs argument. I am absolutely positive that I do not need radiant floors or a timber frame but guess what, that is what I want and that is what I have. I will try to make it as efficient as possible to a certain extent while considering the law of diminishing returns. My point is you have to draw the line somewhere. EE and ROI are worth respecting but I feel they are a distant second to your wants. Have what you want, life is short! WOW way out on a tangent here, sorry. Can not wait for the chiller vs. ground source debate. LOL

Jamesanderson User is Offline

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13 Dec 2023 10:28 PM
@Rgates - How is the Roth panels holding up since i am thinking of going with it for my 2nd fl, 1500sq ft. Wood floor truss, plywood, schluter, thinset and then tiles? What were the price on the panels?