TechGromit
Advanced Member
Posts:634
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| 16 Jun 2008 07:50 PM |
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Should the type of refrigent be a consideration when choosing a Geothermal system? I was offered two chioces to replace my geothermal system, a Florida Heat Pump GS048 which uses R-22 Refrigerant and a ES049 system that uses R-410A Refrigerant. The ES049 system is $1,700 more expensive then the GS048 system and from the Spec sheet the GS048 has a COP of 4.3 at 47k btu where the ES049 has a COP of 4.2 at 48k btu. From the spec sheets, it looks like the R-22 system is more efficent, but am I taking a small risk of not being able to obtian R-22 in the future if my system needs it? From what I read, R-22 wil no long be produced after 2020, with only recycled/recovered inventory available for reuse after that date.
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BillN
New Member
Posts:53
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| 16 Jun 2008 08:46 PM |
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$1700 is a lot of money for a refrigerant change. These units are probably expensive because they haven't scaled up production yet.
I would rather keep my $1700 and invest it to replace the R-22 unit 15 years from now, in 2023. |
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TechGromit
Advanced Member
Posts:634
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| 16 Jun 2008 09:09 PM |
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You would have to earn 10 fold your money in 15 years for replace it in 2023, assuming for price increases. unlikely. The main reason the system is more costly is because the refrigerant is under much higher pressure than R-22, it requires heavier gauge metal to contain it.
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tuffluckdriller
Advanced Member
Posts:630
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| 17 Jun 2008 11:30 AM |
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R-22 is a more efficient refrigerant, and is also less costly than R-410a right now. There are manufacturers that have developed drop-in replacements for R-22, and they guarantee the equipment against failure from the replacement refrigerant. These replacements are available right now. Not as speculation in the future, but actually available and produced.
My point is...you'd be a fool to go for the R-410a at that kind of higher price. R-22 is more efficient. Why pay more to have less efficiency?--(which is why I advocate EarthLinked DX systems)--
There's nothing really to worry about with R-22. |
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| Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com |
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TechGromit
Advanced Member
Posts:634
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| 17 Jun 2008 10:31 PM |
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Posted By tuffluckdriller on 06/17/2008 11:30 AM
My point is...you'd be a fool to go for the R-410a at that kind of higher price. R-22 is more efficient. Why pay more to have less efficiency?--(which is why I advocate EarthLinked DX systems)--
There's nothing really to worry about with R-22. That's the way I was leaning too, but taking another look at the Sale Brochures, the GS048 (R-11) is a single stage system and the ES049 (R-410a) is a 2 stage system. would the cost saving between the two systems be enough to justify the additional costs? |
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tuffluckdriller
Advanced Member
Posts:630
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| 18 Jun 2008 12:44 AM |
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With COPs being so close, there wouldn't be enough payback in savings for $1,700 more. However, the 2 stage could be considered to be more of a comfort choice, rather than just an efficiency choice.
What's the COP of the first stage of the 2 stage unit? What's the COP of the 2nd stage? or is it averaged to the 4.2? |
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| Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com |
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TechGromit
Advanced Member
Posts:634
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| 18 Jun 2008 01:57 PM |
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ES049
Rated at 1000 CFM and 12.0 GPM Ground Water Cooling Capacity 38,000 EER 34 Heating Capacity 32,000 COP 4.6
Rated at 1600 CFM and 12.0 GPM Ground Water Cooling Capacity 54,000 EER 19 Heating Capacity 48,000 COP 4.2
Average COP 4.4
GS048
Rated at 1600 CFM and 12 GPM Ground Water Cooling Capacity 52,00 EER 21.1 Heating Capacity 47,000 COP 4.3
Looks like the ES049 is more effiecent. I was thinking about insulating the basement and asking for a heat/loss calc to see if I could get away with a smaller system. He didn't do a heat/loss calc, he's just replacing whats there with a simular sized unit since that size was heating fine. I just wish I had an idea of what the base price was for each unit so I would know if it would worth trying to downsize the unit.
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tuffluckdriller
Advanced Member
Posts:630
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| 18 Jun 2008 04:20 PM |
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He dang well better do a load calculation. How does he know it was properly sized in the first place? What a joke. Make him do it. Going with a smaller unit on an existing loop, though, won't necessarily save you a lot of money. Maybe $300-$500. But, more importantly, the more properly sized the system, the more efficient and comfortable it will be.
With a COP difference of .1, there's not going to be a $1,700 pay back in less than 30 years. Compare the warranty of the two. Compare the noise of them. |
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| Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com |
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