I currently live in a 4 bedroom colonial with approximately 2500sf.  The house was built in 1999 by a reputable builder obsessed with insulation.  The house itself is efficient.  However the house is also heated with propane(About $3.05 today) w/ hot water baseboard, the price has gone up 300% since I moved in.  The house also has a 3 ton Trane central A/C.

My question is this.  The propane boiler is in the basement and runs the heat and hot water.  The A/C air handler is located in the attic.  Is it possible and logical to just add the geothermal heat exchanger to the air handler in the attic and leave the baseboard heat alone.  I figure that would take care of my A/C needs and I could also pump heat out of it, and on realllly cold days I could use the propane heat to supplement the geothermal heat.

Does this sound like a good idea or am I just fooling myself.

Thanks in advance.

Yes, that's a viable, good option. You'd most likely be limited to a 3 ton geothermal system, because you have 3 ton duct (I hope).

I think the air handler is 4 ton but I'm not sure. I know the A/C is supposed to be 3. So this could be used for A/C and heat correct. This would also eliminate the need for the outside condenser right?

One more thing. Is it a problem since the A/C has one central air intake in the upstairs hallway and individual ducts in each room? I would not like to have to add intake ducts in every room.

That's more of a comfort issue. When those rooms' doors close, they can't circulate air the way they should. When each room has its own return air connection, it can then mix the air more completely and make the home more comfortable.

As far as the system working, it will still work, as long as the quantity of air needed can be achieved using the existing duct.

I have started to get quotes, and I gotta say they are quite a bit higher than I expected. Using the existing ductwork and leaving the existing heating system alone(backup for the Geo system) I have been getting quotes of 26k-28k. This seems high and pushes the payoff period to about 10 years! If this is the case I'll just stick with propane and take my chances.

Does this seem high to anyone?

You'd have to list more details for us to know if that's high. What all does the bid include?

I don't have alot of info, but here's what I know. It's for an Earthlinked DX system 4tons. A couple of ducts run to bathrooms which have none. A thermostat which would automatically switch to the propane furnace if the GEO could not keep up. Digging a pit, drilling, backfilling, reseeding. Replacing the current A/C unit in the attic with the GEO unit.

I'm not sure if this is enough info. But I use on average 1200 gallons of propane/yr. At today's price(3.07) that is about $3700. If my heat cost went to ZERO the payoff would be 7.5 years! And we all know that's not gonna happen. A 10 year payoff I cannot justify.

Are you planning on not needing heat in 10 years? At least there is a payoff. And after it has paid for itself, you're saving even more money.

Anyway, if the price includes drilling, it seems like your price is probably right for all that includes.

I hear you, I really do. But the economics gets hard around 10 years. What if the system doesn't provide the efficiency budgeted, what about a major breakdown?, what if(unlikely) fossil fuel prices come down, or a new ultra efficiency propane heater comes out. 10 years is a long time time to plan for and if one of the things I just mentioned occurs I could be looking at 15 years or maybe never. Alot of if's and since I know of no-one that has this type of system it makes it pretty scary. That's all I'm saying.

As for an ultra efficiency propane heater, no matter what, the efficiency will always be lower than 100%. That means, for every dollar you put in, you'll get less than a dollar of heat out. With geothermal, it's a very proven fact that you'll get 300-500% efficiency. In other words, for every dollar you put in, you'll get $3-$5 of heat out.

I can see that there is a sticker shock to the price. Also, there are some unknowns to you. However, you can take the word of those who do know. We know that geothermal really is that efficient.

14 years ago when my company started in to them, we didn't know. Now, with prices still ever increasing, as they will always do, we have homeowners that KNOW that they have saved tens of thousands of dollars over 14 years. They'll continue to save for years to come, because geothermal heat pumps will outlast other compressor units (air conditioners & air source heat pumps). We definitely know now that it is worth the investment.

I don't expect gas or fuel prices to continue to rise at the rate they are rising, but I said that 4 years ago when propane had taken a 20% jump each year. Now, propane has taken an average jump of about 20% per year for 6 years. SIX YEARS! In fact, last year it had a 35%-40% jump in our area. Do I expect that to continue? No, but it probably will. Maybe the price will level off. Maybe gas prices for my car will level off. I wish.

When it comes to a decision of spending thousands of dollars, we all want to know we're making the right decision. In fact, unless you're a multimillionaire, decisions of large purchase always come attached to some kind of 'buyer's remorse'. Did I spend all that money for a good reason? Is this really the car I want? Am I sure?

Really, there are thousands upon thousands of satisfied customers who have purchased and LOVE the COMFORT, and economics of their geothermal heat pump decision.

If you're really concerned, have them put on a separate electric meter to sub-meter the heat pump's performance. It'll prove to you that you're really saving that much, if not more. Most people we've installed sub-meters for don't ever pay attention to them after the first few months. They realize they are saving thousands, and they save money while enjoying the comfort.

Well, I've got another guy coming on Monday. I'll ask him the hard questions and see what he has to say. Thanks for all the info.

Well, had a guy from MyHome here and it was not great. First off he wanted $1000 to do Site planning and Manual "J". And qouted a price of 8-10k per ton. Or about $45,000 for the whole shebang. He did not, he said could not, offer any references of people he has installed or even use the system. I would love to talk one on one with some people with installed systems.

Seemed more like a used car salesman, I wonder if he is just trying to cash-in on the recent hysteria on energy costs. Well I'll keep getting more estimates. I think the technology is sound, but I am wary of the installers. Anybody have recommendations for someone in the lower hudson valley of New York?

Wow. I'd steer clear of him.

I'd recommend you call Mel Hensch. He's the EarthLinked rep in your area. Let him know your concerns if you've already been contacted by his dealers.

If someone won't/can't provide references, beware. Or, you're their first install of this type. But still, they should have some sort of references for their work.

Mel's number and info is:
508-328-4735 phone
[email protected]

Let us know if you don't have any luck this way.

I live in Central CT and received quotes from $6.5k-10k per ton systems which is probably comparable as similar priced market. I've been quoted 3-3.5 ton systems (2200sqf). My house isn't nearly as energy efficient as yours (built 1937 although updated). I also had contractors who wanted to charge me a grand to come out and do the site survey. I didn't take them up on the offer. Just brought in other contractors. I've had quotes for vertical and horizontal systems. Not sure which I will go with at this point. Want more on-site surveys.

I've also had contractors tell me that they would have to rip out my existing central AC ducting (who didn't come on site to survey) and contractors who were fine with using it.

Make sure they've inspected the existing duct before they accept it as usable. In most cases, it is. But it's still something that shouldn't just be overlooked.

By the way. If anybody has a geothermal system installed and could talk to me about it. Maybe you could send me contact info via email. I still have not talked personally to anybody that has a system installed in their house. Thanks in advance.