Hello all, We are biting the bullet and switching to a geothermal system for small DE beach house (1800 sq ft). We have two estimates and cannot figure out which system is better for the price: A: $15,750 3 ton system. 23.7EER Carrier Handler FV4BNF005 w. 15kw heat kit, Carrier 50YDS036JCD301 Geothermal Heat pump 410 A refrig, 2 stage compressor. Hot water heater kit. Includes everything from permits to wells to completion. B. $17,250 3 ton system. 25.3 EER American Standard handler 4TEE3F37A1000A w Aux heat pkg, Water Furnace Envision NDZ038A11AC Geothermal split system with hot water option. Includes everything from permits to wells to completion. The big question... is the $1500 worth it for the Water Furnace/American Standard package vs the Carrier package. I am have a tough time finding impartial reviews of the units on-line. Does anyone have an opinion one way or the other. Any advice is much appreciated.

I'm partial to Waterfurnace because their Envision system is a bit more efficient than the best from Carrier / Climatemaster. That and geo is all WF does - not dealing with a small part of a huge bureaucracy.

Your choice should probably be based mostly upon which contractor inspired more confidence - geo experience, attention to details, references, trustworthiness, etc.

If the beach house is not a year round home, it would be a long time before the minor difference in EER made up for the higher first cost.

He's right on the EER difference being insignificant. Also, I agree that you should go with the contractor that has the best record.

Dear DcIslander,

I am considering a geo heat pump for my home in N DE.

Did any of the contractors you talked to offer a direct exchange system?

Thank you.

Not sure what a direct exchange system is. The two systems above were the only ones I was offered. I did receive two additional estimates, but I did not like the contractors.

I just heard a story about a Geothermal system where they did not test the water in the loop and it was so acidic that in 10 years the pipes failed and all needed to be replaced. Has anyone else heard of this happening? I assume that would only happen in an open loop system. Also, what do you guys think about the system prices? $15,750 vs $17,250? On par with what everyone else is finding?

My understanding is that the copper pipes in a direct exchange system will fail over time if the soil is too acidic.   One of the direct exchange systems (EarthLinked) claims to have a method to prevent that from happening.

In the water-source systems that you were quoted the pipes should be plastic and soild acidity should not be a concern.

In a direct exhange (DX) system the refrigerant is sent into the ground through a copper pipe network.  Copper is a much better heat conductor than plastic (used in the water-source systems like the one from WaterFurnace).  The system is simpler because there are only two heat exchange points: (1) house air with refrigerant loop and (2) refrigerant loop with ground.

In a water-source system (like the one made by WaterFurnace) there are three heat exchanges: (1) house air with refrigerant loop, (2) refrigerant loop with water loop (this ones goes into the ground and is made of plastic), and (3) water loop with ground.

Yes this would only happen in an open loop.

 Are the prices you have been quoted for an open or closed loop system?

Anti-free will turn acidic over time and should be tested every year. This happens in normal hydronic heating systems , every 5 years or so all the gylcol needs to be replaced. This is a function of the anti-freez itself and clearly listed on the pale. Direct exchange are comprable in price because you have less material (no pump, 1 less exchanger, no anti-freeze) but the copper in the ground is more expensive. Any quility company is going to offer at least 50year warranttee if not lifetime to origanal owner for the copper pipes in the ground.

So to sum it up there are methods to protect the pipes  in the ground from the soil , but you have far more to fear if you have anti-freeze  in those pipes (not realy if you have it tested regularly). Dx are more eff. , less  noise, and less maint.

Water Furnace is a good unit. I have had the Premier series for about five years with no problems.  Carrier is not primarily involved with Geothermal and you may have trouble in the future with service and/or performance related issues.  Water Furnace will answer any question you may have.  That has been my experience.

EarthLinked DX definitely does have a proven system for acidic soil. It's an impressed currrent anode/cathode system. That means that there is no sacrificial anode rod. It constantly bombards the copper loops with electrons. This STOPS corrosion from acidic soil.