no luck with geo contractors yet
Last Post 14 Jul 2008 09:52 AM by Egghead2004. 7 Replies.
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Egghead2004User is Offline
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12 Jul 2008 10:21 PM
WOW!
This is tough. I have spoken to 8 contracors so far. 4 want to do an open looped well system. I have explained till blue in the face that I cannot dump ANY water in a dry well or anywhere else on my property due to the water table.

Two who will do the closed loop or DX  but will not do anything with the Unico high velocity system.

One says he can engineer a system with Unico, but contracts the work out to other companies and refuses to work with a home owner...even though I am an 18 year veteran of HVAC. 

One was too busy to do anything this year, but after 1 hour on the phone talking suggested that since I already have worked 18 years in HVAC and have installed a dozen Unico systems along with countless conventional systems, go get certified for Erthlink! So I am thinking about going in that direction now since I am 0 for 8 with Geo contractors in central MA.

Any thoughts?
tuffluckdrillerUser is Offline
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13 Jul 2008 11:05 AM
On the Unico, be careful. We've unfortunately seen too many times that their coils don't get the rated output they claim. For example, I know of a house that has three 5 ton air conditioners with unico air handlers. They deliver about the equivalent of 3 ton air conditioners. On further investigation, it turns out that the Unico system (along with other brands) actually should be oversized on the coil in order to get the required BTUhs. It's a mess.

I'm not sure what they are doing about it, but mini-duct systems need to be scrutinized closely before being installed.
Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com
engineerUser is Offline
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13 Jul 2008 11:16 AM
To get my open loop system installed in Florida I had to tell the HVAC contractor that I would be responsible for the water side and that all I needed from them was to give me 24 Vac at a couple screws when water was needed. I also did all the J and D calcs using Elitesoft. When they were "done" I still had to debug both the zone damper wiring and tell them where to set ECM blower fan speeds (on the zone board, not the board on the unit)

To their credit, they did a good job with the physical install and their techs were polite and showed up when scheduled. My builder and I used them after exhausting all other possibilities - hardly anyone does geo near Jax, and multi-zone, 2 stage systems baffle most contractors. Manuals J, D, and S are greek to these guys. The upshot of all this is that I've sat the HVAC test in Tallahassee and plan to qualify my builder's co to pull HVAC permits and start properly designing and installing these systems. I'm an engineer with no formal experience in HVAC but my gut reaction is that in the land of the blind, a one-eyed man can be king.

I relate all this to highlight the dearth of competent HVAC contractors willing and able to install geo.

I've spent time with family in Massachusetts. I'm sure you know that 40% of homes there now use oil heat, and its cost is expected to nearly double, in fact has already. It may be impossible to secure fixed pricing for oil. There is a rising sense of panic - Typical homeowners are looking at $5k in fuel this winter, and many just won't be able to pay it.

If I lived anywhere in New England and could tell Freon from neon, I'd be jumping into geo with both feet - there has never been a better time: Most in the industry haven't a clue, there is enormous financial pressure to get off fossil fuels, and we're finally at a mass market tipping point for going green

Arm yourself with proper load software - for $1500 or so you can get a suite that covers pretty much everything you'll need for residential geo. Figure out what works for you and go for it. Since you know Unico (I don't) you are uniquely qualified to handle retrofits in older homes now without ductwork. I think getting the air distribution side right is hardest and rarest in this business. If you get it right and know the loads and design conditions, everything else is cookbook.

Seriously, you ought to just go for it!
Curt Kinder <br><br>

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
Palace GeothermalUser is Offline
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13 Jul 2008 11:49 AM
Posted By engineer on 07/13/2008 11:16 AM
....in the land of the blind, a one-eyed man can be king.


great line  lol

Dewayne Dean

<br>www.PalaceGeothermal.com<br>Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%<br>We heat and cool with dirt!<br>visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system
tuffluckdrillerUser is Offline
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13 Jul 2008 07:24 PM
I agree with the idea of becoming an EarthLinked dealer/contractor. If you have the experience, Engineer's right. It's tipping point for the green market. You just as well be on the leading edge.
Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com
engineerUser is Offline
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14 Jul 2008 12:56 AM
My suggestion was broader than (and certainly not intended to endorse) merely becoming an Earthlink DX installer. I'm not going to here wade into the DX vs conventional loop system debate, but know that DX has shortcomings elsewhere here discussed

My point is that anyone in the New England area with solid HVAC experience and Unico installs under his belt ought to be able to make hay with all of the whole spectrum of geo systems - closed loop, open loop, standing column well, or DX, whatever the circumstances of a particular job dictate.

$~4 dollar propane and $~5 heating oil are concentrating a whole lotta minds right now. I've served 20 years in a big corporate environment, installing complex control systems and one major takeaway from all that is that he (or she) who offers a well-supported system solution, rather than just a bag of products, will always survive and flourish.
Curt Kinder <br><br>

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
JobbzUser is Offline
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14 Jul 2008 07:10 AM
I need an HVAC guy in Rhode Island for a geothermal install, Egghead. You interested?
Egghead2004User is Offline
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14 Jul 2008 09:52 AM
tuffluckdriller, Ah yes Unico is a bit tricky. They also don't pump out the CFMs per ton that one would normally think is required. The units that I have are both rated for 2-2.5 tons but only pump out 700 CFMs max. They also tell you to run 12 outlets...more like 16 should be run. Anyway that's a whole differnt rat hole.

Jobbz - lol, I got out of the HVAC game a few years ago. I stilll do part time installations here and there, but have no geo experience to speak of. With the rising cost of oil, I want to have either a closed loop or DX system installed in my home. Who knows, maybee I will get certified with one of these geo companies and get back into the business if this works as well as people say it does.

We'll see, thanks for the thoughts.
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