Hey guys been reading alot of threads and think my heads going to explode. I am buying a house that has baseboard heat and no AC. It has well water. I am looking to add a Geothermal system. Should I do an open loop becaus I have a well? what other stuff do I need to know?

Thanks in advanced.

Get proposals from local contractors. Then discuss specific questions which arise from those proposals here. If you want entirely to self-educate here, figure on a whole lot more head-exploding details.

ok
I had a couple of contractors come by to give me prices. They both said I would need dual systems because I have no duct. They said they can do a dual Geo. Does anybody have experience with this type of system? Is it still more efficient than a conventional system?

Thanks

Hi Deb, I am not sure what is meant by a dual system. Can you elaborate a little? Is it a dual in the sense that you keep your boiler and add a geo system? Can you give us more details?

A duel system would be a water to water system to furnish hot water for your baseboard heat, and a water to air system to furnish air conditioning and maybe, with the addition of a desuperheater, hot water as a supplement to your water heater. 

He said 2 systems 1 in the attic to feed the upstairs and 1 in the basement to feed the first floor. We are going to get rid of the electric baseboard heating altogether. He said if I went with Geo he could hook them together some how. I haven't received his quote yet.

OK this make sense now. Two separate heat pumps which share the ground loop. Geo systems are always more efficient than any other system. You can be sure of that. What he is proposing makes a lot of sense unless there is some way to run ductwork in your house.

I will let you guys know when I get the price.

T see said the blind man.  Now it makes sense

ok got some quotes let me know what you guys think.
quote 1:
1. one 3 ton Premier model PO 34
2. one 2 1/2 ton Premier model PO 28
Unit to be equipped with back-up electric heat and mechanical air cleaner.
Install complete closed loop vertical piping system using Water Furnace piping.
Fabricate and install sheet metal duct work for 1st & 2nd floor air distribution systems.
$34,550.00
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Quote 2
Water Furnace geothermal system using (1) 4 ton NDV049 Envision Series dual capacity unit with an ECM fan and a 10 year warranty. This will heat and cool the home in 2 zones – 1st floor as zone 1 and 2nd floor as zone 2.
DUCT SYSTEM: Duct work will be constructed of 26-gauge sheet metal. The main supply line will be insulated. Register and grille count is approximate and will be field determined.
HORIZONTAL CLOSED LOOPS: Will consist of 4 trenches, 150 feet in length. Each trench will have 800 feet of ¾ inch diameter coil pipe, buried 5 feet deep. Total pipe 3,200 feet. Homeowner will be responsible for trenching and any following compaction.
ACCESSORIES: Includes 1 Air Bear filter and 1 air pad to prevent vibration. Does not include humidifier.
$35,675.00
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Quote 3:
Climate Master TTV064 two stage.
Variable speed blower motor unit.
Hot water generation system and storage tank.
New supply air and return air duct systems.
Install horizontal piping with all accessories(excavation and backfill by others)
Electric backup heater.
Airflow enhancement features.
$31,858.00 add $8,000 for vertical loops.
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Wow three closed loop prices, did any of them give you a reason why you couldn't utilize your existing well? The well water quality could be poorly suited for an open loop application, did they even look at your well? Where are you located? If closed loop is your only option, I would suggest that two seperate systems would be the better alternative. (I'm referring to the first option listed)  So for the 4 ton system with two zone, can anyone tell me how that would work?

 

 

Im in New Castle Delaware. They all suggested closed loop. 2 out of the three said they will only do closed. Just want to make sure I make the correct choice.

I'll hang with the local guys regarding the open/closed loop question. Three bids within 20% is encouraging, ask the bidders to explain the differences. Bids appear to range from 4 to 5.5 tons. I would like to see the respective heat loads. Keep up with the home work and I think you'll be happy.
J

You are lucky to be able to choose from what appears to be, at first blush, 3 reasonably well thought out proposals.

I do see a bit of variation in total load - 4.0 to 5.5 nominal tons. That's not a huge range, but I'd want to know the reasoning behind each - Were proper ACCA Manual J (whole house) D (room by room) and S (matching specific equipment model to site conditions) done and articulated in each case? What assumptions / design values were selected for summer and winter entering water temps from the loop field. The system on the low end (4 tons with zoning) may be a better fit (smaller, quieter, more efficient, better summer comfort) with some use of backup heat strips on a few really cold days. On the other hand, the double system solution may simplify (and reduce installation disruption) of the ductwork as well as provide excellent comfort and some redundancy (if one goes down you still have the other)

Even more important - which contractor can readily supply you with 3-5 happy references - homeowners who had him / her fairly recently install a similar system and are happy with the comfort, quiet, and cost savings.

(Adding to my post, partially in response to Joe's near-simultaneous comments) - I have open loop, but closed is more appropriate in a majority of cases, and, yes, defer to local experience in that regard..

Most installers, myself included, avoid open loops because of the problems with water quality. I know some people have them and they work fine, but there is the risk of problems down the road.

With closed loops the risk of call backs and unhappy customers is greatly reduced. I would imagine the installers who gave you quotes feel the same way.

Good luck and keep us posted.

I have plans for the house. Is there somewhere I can get an outsiders suggestion of what size unit I would need?

We would need the heat load calcs in order to size your heat pump. Can you ask each installer for the heat load they calculated

If you know the insulation sizes and measurements of the windows, there are several programs you could buy yourself that would give you a heat/cooling load for $50 to 100 range plus your time. One I know of is http://www.hvaccomputer.com/ . I think Grommit has another one he suggested.