From everything I've been reading over the past several months, DIY seems to be taboo everywhere. Why is that?

I've been a contractor for over 20 years. I come from a family history of contractors, and just about everyone in this family (male and female) is capable of upgrading/repairing anything around our homes. So perhaps that's why I feel the whole geothermal exchange system is plain common sense.

Is the concern keeping the contractors in business or keeping the idiots from blowing themselves up?

I'm in NW Florida...being curious, I dug a 4' deep trench 3' wide and 100' long. I ran 3/4" pex tubing "looped" the length and a straight line back to the unit. I have a free standing air handler with a 2 ton evaporator. An in line pump I bought from a local hardware supply house with a 5 gallon drywall mud bucket as a reserve to remove air from the system and fill as needed. The system is not pressurized obviously.

The system was finished in June, it has been running till recently (winter temps now) and the water temperature balanced out around 70 degrees. I'm sure with a bit more length and depth I could get that temp considerably lower.

The major cost was the tubing....the air handler came from a system being replaced.

I purchased a home that was build in 54'. It's unsulated block walls, with 8" blown insulation attic and a white roof shingle. The windows are not thermal so the house is definitely not efficient but that will come in time. Each room has it's own window a/c unit. When this system stabilized I was able to supply the living room, kitchen and dining room with a completely acceptable atmosphere of around 78 degrees.

When I continue with this project, I intend to triple  the length of hose installed (probably 3 individual lines connected by a manifold) and install a full central air system. The house is currently heated with a fireplace as well as individual ng heaters.

I know that would cover some of the questions that might come, so just through that out there.

My question is, why is DIY taboo and for capable people, why are others recommending they spend $10,000+ on a system that's so simple?

It's not particularly taboo here - if you want to get REALLY flamed for DIY questions go play at HVAC-TALK. Part of the issue is not wanting folks to burn down their houses or electrocute themselves or family. The other issue over there is that their pros do this stuff for a living and seek to preserve their incomes - dispensing freebies over the internet defeats that purpose.

You are correct - this isn't rocket science, but as you can see here, many problems are subtle and difficult to diagnose from cyberspace. I've been utterly wrong a number of times. I applaud your initiative in implementing a system which works for you. I hope it is safe and economical. If you have specific questions about aspects of your system, ask away, someone will weigh in.

Many folks here just want a safe, quiet, comfortable dependable and economic HVAC system for which they are willing to pay a reasonable price including some profit for a competent contractor. They'd like their sole interaction with the system to consist of setting the thermostat, changing the air filter, and paying a low power bill. They come here when that relationship breaks down. They are neither able or willing to learn the intricacies of voltage, current, pumps, compressors, blowers, refrigerants, psychrometrics and loads.

All that said, we find here, (and you no doubt know from your long experience in construction) there unfortunately are a lot of hacks out there installing and working on HVAC systems. A major function we perform here is debunking many of the HVAC myths and helping victims of shoddy work recognize it and work through the issues. We share a common interest in advancing the selection and performance of geo HVAC. Geo's rep has been harmed by shoddy installs and the present era is no different, other than the equipment and design tools have both greatly improved.

I have been cooling and heating my home with a system that I built and installed since 1995. I had the duct work done by a local contractor and hired a backhoe for the trenching. I added a garage in 2000 and installed a console unit to heat and cool that. I had minor problems with both but nothing compared to what I've heard here with contractors and their installed systems. My highest electric bill in 13 yrs. was $108- 2800 sq.ft., all electric, super insulated in the Arkansas Ozarks. I haven't touched anything (other than filters) in a couple of years. Knock on wood.

Blue, welcome. Do you have a heat pump hooked up to this or are you just blowing air across the 70° water from the ground?




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70 degree from the ground.

What I can't figure out (and honestly I'm not trying to be rude) are the prices. Hire a good contractor....his time/knowledge are worth it if you don't understand/want to do your own install. I completely understand that aspect....

Paying (what I consider) insane prices. A typical geo system costs considerably LESS than a fuel using system...why are people charging more? Is it mark up? Why are these prices recommended to the average Joe?

This is a stab and grab market I guess...till some Asian country figures there's a market for this line of product, the mfg is getting all he can, while he can.

Care to give us some numbers to back this up?

Where is that thread laying out all the costs, it explains it all quite well.

I would like to start by saying congrads on your choice of system, and truly hope it works out perfectly for you.

But it sounds to my like the system you designed is a loop though the ground to a hydro coil . Most geo systems are considerably more complicated then this, and almost all are done with home heating ( or domestic water heating in mind )

This usualy includes ductwork , trenching/drilling , compressor, acumulator, reversing valve, pumps, AXV, and the list goes on.

Also most contractors dont have the time , nor custumers have the patience , for trial and error. So an in depth design phase must be accounted for.

and yes profit , the company installing it , the manufacturer, and everyone in between ( rightfully so )
The prices are high and yes some of that comes from them knowing how much you will save with there product , but not that much.
The majority of the cost is the compressor/trim , and drilling/trenching. after that its realy no more expensive then anyother heatpump .

Bluediamond. What kind of condensor are you using? I came across some really nice titanium tube-in-tube heat exchangers that have been condensing for me with no problems. I used a Carrier air source heat pump (2.5 ton) compressor and controls (used). I had to replace the compressor in 1998 but the replacement has been working since then. I'm looking in the forums because I'm remodeling a house that I inherited and would like to know if there is something new out there. I may try to go with direct exchange but I'm concerned out the oil getting trapped in the ground loop and haven't  thought of how to avoid that. 

I agree that HVAC is one of those "leave it to the experts" areas of the home that is made to be way more out of reach than it should be. When in reality it isn't that complicated when you look at the basic parts of it. There are calculators and lots of formulas and tools out there to figure it all out and save plenty of money. It drives me crazy that a fan and a couple of burners (or compressor in my case) is made out to be so scary by some.

That said, I paid for someone else to do my system. While I'm a technical guy who knows a lot about electrical, computers, software, civil work, project management and I've even swung a hammer in my day, I have a 40-50hr a week job, a family, a small farm and other duties which leaves me no time to do a project like this (at least get it done in a reasonable timeframe). When I looked the options, I considered doing my own geo system. However, getting a GSHP unit from a dealer or manufacturer that will be warrantied is tough when you're not a certified installer or dealer and while I'm sure there's a way, I simply didn't want to mess with it.

Next, I considered my time. In the end, I felt ok paying for a crew to do the job to get the trenches done in two days, a piece of mind of warrantied service and install and knowing my heat system would be down for only two weeks in the summer (not 4 months while I tried to hack it out). Plus I had someone local who would back up their work and who was very upfront about their cost breakdown.

So while I had a keen interest in it and certainly am capable, I found value in my system being done by someone who's done many systems already. I did my calcs based on estimated efficencies and even with heating oil (my previous heat source) being what it is now, I make my money back in 8 years (when it was $3.50 per gal I made it back in 5 or so). I also plan on keeping my house for the long haul and do not have to worry about getting that money back quickly.

I'm happy, my family is warm (it's snowing right now actually) and I supported my local contractor in my town, so a win all around for a reasonable premium.

Colin