jvk
New Member
Posts:29
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| 24 Dec 2008 12:13 AM |
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It has been exactly one year since I had a Tranquility 27 (5 T) system installed in my home. I have two 380 ft closed vertical loops connected in parallel. I have been very happy with the performance thus far. For your review I post below my electric bills for 2006, 2007 and 2008.
Note that before I went with the Geothermal system in 2008, I had a propane fired furnace (100,000 Btu) and a 4 T AC unit. I was roughly using 1000 g of propane in addition to electricity. Current price for propane is $2.39/Gallon.
In 2008 my propane consumption has gone down significantly because now propane supplies energy to just the tankless water heater.
Also in 2008, during the heating season I kept the set point the same as previous years. But during the cooling season of 2008, I kept the setpoint 3 to 4 deg F lower than the previous years because I wanted to be comfortable and take advantage of the geothermal system.
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Yr 2006 |
Yr 2007 |
Yr 2008 |
| January |
$111 |
$109 |
$172 |
| February |
$81 |
$98 |
$178 |
| March |
$93 |
$102 |
$138 |
| April |
$72 |
$80 |
$115 |
| May |
$67 |
$70 |
$87 |
| June |
$82 |
$101 |
$118 |
| July |
$188 |
$161 |
$166 |
| August |
$237 |
$207 |
$173 |
| September |
$117 |
$167 |
$167 |
| October |
$80 |
$114 |
$96 |
| November |
$90 |
$82 |
$107 |
| December |
$94 |
$145 |
$168 |
| Total |
$1,312 |
$1,435 |
$1,684 |
You can seed that for me, going to Geothermal system was a "no brainer". It may not be the same for others, who may have a different situation.
Regards,
VK
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jvk
New Member
Posts:29
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| 24 Dec 2008 12:15 AM |
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I apologize for the highlighted text in my original message, above.
I am not sure what I did there.
VK |
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Palace Geothermal
Veteran Member
Posts:1609
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| 24 Dec 2008 01:19 AM |
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So...VK do I read your chart to say that your electric bill from 2007 to 2008 went up $249 after adding geothermal and now your only propane cost is heating hot water? |
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Dewayne Dean
<br>www.PalaceGeothermal.com<br>Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%<br>We heat and cool with dirt!<br>visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system |
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conniepangan
Basic Member
Posts:112
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| 24 Dec 2008 10:26 AM |
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How big is your house? |
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Dean in Edmonton
New Member
Posts:16
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| 24 Dec 2008 04:56 PM |
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Great post, thanks for the numbers.
Dean
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jvk
New Member
Posts:29
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| 24 Dec 2008 09:19 PM |
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Dewayne, Yes you concluded correctly that my cost went up only marginally. I have kept account of each bill and I can assure you that the numbers are correct. However, as you know very well, a better way to present the data would be in terms of KWhr consumed each month. I have attached that data for 2007 and 2008, below. The reason why the whole thing works so well for me is the following: I live in SE PA and my utility company is PECO part of the Excelon Corporation. My regular rate for 2007 was about $0.149 per KWhr and in the summer $0.169/KWhr about 600 kWhr used. When I went to the geothermal system I received an all electric rate - in the heating months $0.149 per KWhr for first 600 KWhr consumed and then $0.079/ KWhr above that. In the summer months I do not get a break and the rates are as they were for the summer of 2007. As you can see that I get some advantage from the all electric rate. But if you see the KWhr consumption below you will agree that the savings are still pretty good.
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2007 KW hr |
2008 KWhr |
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January |
732 |
1673 |
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February |
658 |
1775 |
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March |
685 |
1278 |
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April |
537 |
899 |
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May |
470 |
560 |
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June |
678 |
739 |
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July |
1077 |
1027 |
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August |
1392 |
1067 |
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September |
1118 |
1034 |
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October |
765 |
636 |
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November |
550 |
791 |
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December |
973 |
1644 |
Connie: My total area for first and second floor is 3700 sq ft. I have roughly 1800 sqft in the basement and that is not heated. Dean: Thanks Best regards and warmest wishes for the holidays. VK |
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croaker
New Member
Posts:6
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| 30 Dec 2008 01:11 PM |
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VK, I'm also in SE PA and will have my geothermal system turned on next Monday, 1/5/09. I'm looking forward to seeing the same savings. I've also got PECO coming out to verify the install to get the all electric rate although I was unaware of the 600 KW at full rate. Do your numbers include running a desuperheater for your hot water? I'll have this going as well and I hope to save as much propane as possible. Who did your install and wells?
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Bruce Frey
Basic Member
Posts:429
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| 31 Dec 2008 05:11 AM |
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Posted By jvk on 12/24/2008 9:19 PM
Dewayne,
Yes you concluded correctly that my cost went up only marginally. I have kept account of each bill and I can assure you that the numbers are correct.
A better comparison would be total energy (gas+electricity) cost and consumption. You have essentially changed from gas powered heating to electrical powered heating so naturally your power consumption has gone up. The big savings is in gas. Bruce |
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jvk
New Member
Posts:29
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| 03 Jan 2009 10:03 AM |
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I hope you and your family will enjoy your new geothermal system. If my experience is the norm, you will not be disappointed.
No I did not have the desuperheater hooked up yet so the numbers do not include hot water usage. I currently have a tankless water heater, which I will have linked to the desuperheater and a storage tank.
The wells were drilled by Sensenig and Weaver and the geothermal installation was done by Allen Lawver of Apex Geothermal - they have a home page on the web. Both companies are some where in the Lancaster/ Reading area but also serve the Philadelphia and northern Delaware area.
Bruce,
You are absolutely right. However, I did state in my original post that my rough propane usage was 1000 gallons/year before I went with geothermal system. Now I only use propane to power my tankless water heater.
Regards,
VK
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2158
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| 03 Jan 2009 11:46 AM |
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JVK,
Will your tankless water heater accept pre-heated water from your desuperheater? I have heard that some of the tankless units can not use pre-heated water. Maybe someone can explain this. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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geo fan
Basic Member
Posts:408
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| 03 Jan 2009 11:57 AM |
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GE makes one that will , that is a problem with most gas tankless though |
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Bruce Frey
Basic Member
Posts:429
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| 03 Jan 2009 12:21 PM |
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Bruce,
You are absolutely right. However, I did state in my original post that my rough propane usage was 1000 gallons/year before I went with geothermal system. Now I only use propane to power my tankless water heater.
Regards,
VK
I know your electrical bill went up by $249. How much did your propane use drop in gallons (or $)? Bruce |
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croaker
New Member
Posts:6
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| 03 Feb 2009 09:48 AM |
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I wanted to post a quick follow up to VK concerning the success of my Geothermal install. My system went online on 1/5/2009, just in time for some of the most frigid weather I've seen in SE PA in a long time. I've got two Tranquility split units, a 3 ton for upstairs, and a four ton for downstairs and the soon to finished basement. At this point I've only got one month of electric to compare but with the PECO rate cut I'm already seeing some savings.
For January 2009 I've spent $247 on 2689 KWH of electric. In January of 2008 I spent $275 on 1863 KWH of electric. My units have been running pretty constantly for the whole month to keep up with the temps. I've set the thermostats at 66 for upstairs and 69 for downstairs, up from 65 for upstairs and 67 for downstairs when I used propane. I've only had the Aux heat come on once for about 10 minutes when it was -5 with the wind chill. I am using the desuperheater on the 4 ton unit and it seems to be producing most if not all of my hot water. I haven't been able to catch the propane water heater running yet, so I'm not sure if it ever runs.
At this point my propane use has been about zero for the month. The percentage gauge on my tank was at 62% on the day we turned on the Geothermal and it shows 62% today. We still use propane for the stove and I'm guessing that the hot water heater is using some propane but so far it's been very minimal.
EWT has hit a low of 40 deg. but usually hovers around 44. The loop has been doing a great job of keeping up so far. There's about 1300' of closed loop in four holes.
I'm trying to get my neighbors propane usage for the month to try and get a handle on how much I've saved in propane.
So far I am very happy with my system. I went into this expecting a lot and I'm very surprised that my expectations have been exceeded. Now if I can only get a full 30% tax break from the federal government ....
Thanks to all for the very informative info on this board. Now onto solar.
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DrDull
New Member
Posts:14
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| 10 May 2009 11:50 AM |
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I have the same question as Alton Keown. Is there a way to take advantage of the HWG in a Tranquility 27 in conjunction with a gas tankless whole-house hot water system? Even if not directly fed to the HWH, it seems that by installing a buffer tank between the HWG and HWH would reduce the energy consumption of the HWH. If the GWHP is not running, you haven't lost anything.
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jdowdle
New Member
Posts:17
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| 30 May 2009 06:43 AM |
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Posted By croaker on 02/03/2009 9:48 AM
I wanted to post a quick follow up to VK concerning the success of my Geothermal install. My system went online on 1/5/2009, just in time for some of the most frigid weather I've seen in SE PA in a long time. I've got two Tranquility split units, a 3 ton for upstairs, and a four ton for downstairs and the soon to finished basement. At this point I've only got one month of electric to compare but with the PECO rate cut I'm already seeing some savings.
For January 2009 I've spent $247 on 2689 KWH of electric. In January of 2008 I spent $275 on 1863 KWH of electric. My units have been running pretty constantly for the whole month to keep up with the temps. I've set the thermostats at 66 for upstairs and 69 for downstairs, up from 65 for upstairs and 67 for downstairs when I used propane. I've only had the Aux heat come on once for about 10 minutes when it was -5 with the wind chill. I am using the desuperheater on the 4 ton unit and it seems to be producing most if not all of my hot water. I haven't been able to catch the propane water heater running yet, so I'm not sure if it ever runs.
At this point my propane use has been about zero for the month. The percentage gauge on my tank was at 62% on the day we turned on the Geothermal and it shows 62% today. We still use propane for the stove and I'm guessing that the hot water heater is using some propane but so far it's been very minimal.
EWT has hit a low of 40 deg. but usually hovers around 44. The loop has been doing a great job of keeping up so far. There's about 1300' of closed loop in four holes.
I'm trying to get my neighbors propane usage for the month to try and get a handle on how much I've saved in propane.
So far I am very happy with my system. I went into this expecting a lot and I'm very surprised that my expectations have been exceeded. Now if I can only get a full 30% tax break from the federal government ....
Thanks to all for the very informative info on this board. Now onto solar.
Croaker, what did you pay for your installation, and who makes TRanquility again? thx |
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jdowdle
New Member
Posts:17
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| 30 May 2009 06:43 AM |
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Posted By croaker on 02/03/2009 9:48 AM
I wanted to post a quick follow up to VK concerning the success of my Geothermal install. My system went online on 1/5/2009, just in time for some of the most frigid weather I've seen in SE PA in a long time. I've got two Tranquility split units, a 3 ton for upstairs, and a four ton for downstairs and the soon to finished basement. At this point I've only got one month of electric to compare but with the PECO rate cut I'm already seeing some savings.
For January 2009 I've spent $247 on 2689 KWH of electric. In January of 2008 I spent $275 on 1863 KWH of electric. My units have been running pretty constantly for the whole month to keep up with the temps. I've set the thermostats at 66 for upstairs and 69 for downstairs, up from 65 for upstairs and 67 for downstairs when I used propane. I've only had the Aux heat come on once for about 10 minutes when it was -5 with the wind chill. I am using the desuperheater on the 4 ton unit and it seems to be producing most if not all of my hot water. I haven't been able to catch the propane water heater running yet, so I'm not sure if it ever runs.
At this point my propane use has been about zero for the month. The percentage gauge on my tank was at 62% on the day we turned on the Geothermal and it shows 62% today. We still use propane for the stove and I'm guessing that the hot water heater is using some propane but so far it's been very minimal.
EWT has hit a low of 40 deg. but usually hovers around 44. The loop has been doing a great job of keeping up so far. There's about 1300' of closed loop in four holes.
I'm trying to get my neighbors propane usage for the month to try and get a handle on how much I've saved in propane.
So far I am very happy with my system. I went into this expecting a lot and I'm very surprised that my expectations have been exceeded. Now if I can only get a full 30% tax break from the federal government ....
Thanks to all for the very informative info on this board. Now onto solar.
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joe.ami
Veteran Member
Posts:4377
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| 31 May 2009 07:20 AM |
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Posted By DrDull on 05/10/2009 11:50 AM
I have the same question as Alton Keown. Is there a way to take advantage of the HWG in a Tranquility 27 in conjunction with a gas tankless whole-house hot water system?
This has been discussed at length in another thread. I don't remember the title, but you will recognize it for what it is. j |
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Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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In the know
New Member
Posts:14
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| 14 Nov 2010 08:04 PM |
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Thanks for sharing this data.>Can you please share your total cost of your GEOTHERMAL UNIT installation before taxes. This would be greatly appreciated.
Best Regards; In the know. |
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In the know
New Member
Posts:14
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| 14 Nov 2010 08:18 PM |
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JVK,
Thanks for sharing this data. Great savings. Can you please also share your TOTAL COST of your GEOTHERMAL UNIT installation before taxes. This would be greatly appreciated.
Best Regards. In the know. |
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hong
New Member
Posts:10
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| 18 Jan 2011 05:43 PM |
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Dear Sir, I have installed the Tranquility 27 5T 2-stage heat pump in my home. it is a new construction finished this last November. 5500sf (2700 sf per level rancher). it seems that good portion of the time both stage are on, even when the inside temp meets the thermostat. temp. My daily useage in Dec in the Northwest as 130 kwh/day. Although I have almost all things heated by electric (Avista Utilities), lighting are only minimal (with 100% CFL and LED lighting). the only bigger kwh use appliance is the 50 galon electric heat tank.
My question is: will this 5 Ton Tranquility 27 sufficient for this house? and does this system seems functioning correctly?
tks. for your advise.
Hong |
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