Everyone just let me start off by saying the amount of help and information on this forum is amazing, thanks to all that contribute.
Well here's my situation, I am about to buy my first home, my wife and I found a single family ranch home that is 1100 sqft with an unfinished basement that is about 1000 sqft. We live in northeast ohio so its gets cold in the winter and hot and humid in the summer. The home was built in 1964 - its well built but Im not sure that it is insulated that well. which I will address over time with new foam insulation in the attic and new windows (all down the road) The furnace is 14 years old and the airconditioning unit is 12 yrs old- it has central air, duct work in place.
 Property sits on half an acrea all in the rear of the home.
So heres my question, for a small house such as this would geo thermal but worth it? I am going to have to change the furnace and air conditioning units now or very shortly and with a Energy effiencent mortgage I could finance the cost of the geothermal into my monthly vic on the home and hopefully lower my heating and cooling costs verus a new furance and air conditioner. I would be looking at a horiztional closed loop system. Having to guess probably a 2 ton system for the GEO.
I have to get a energy audit done on the home and then get an estimate for the geo install for the mortgage if we go ahead with this.
I just wanted to see from the forums experience if being that this is a small home not the avg 2200sqft that seems to be on all the geo manufactures websites would geo be worth it money wise- being a small home is the return there?

Just some additional info I would be putting in a high effiencey furnace and airconditioning unit- which are not cheap if I don't go the geothermal route so i figure improbably already halfway of the cost of a geo system at that point . Also regardless of geo or conventional route, I will be sealing all the duct work and insulating it. Also the basement I will finish some day and will be using foam board on the floor and then 3/4 plywood as a subfloor-and foam board and conventional fiberglass insulation on the walls. I only plan to have 1-3 vents putting air into the basement- I prefer it stay cool year round as most basements do, I don't plan on heating it -just dont want it freezing.

I am a little nervous with being one first home and maybe going Geothermal- but lower costs and longer equipment life plus helps enviroment seems like it might be a good thing to do.

Any help or thoughts are greatly appreciated and welcomed.

It seems to me that your situation lends it self well to a geo system. There are tax breaks available ($2000 ferderal, maybe state as well) . If you add it to your mortgage, the money you save should make the additional amount added to your mortgage.

Just be sure and do your homework on your installer. There are numerous posts on this board from people who have spent thousands of dollars only to be disappointed by ending up with a system that costs them more to operate and is less comfortable

with the cost of fuel today a geo retrofit would have a very long roe if ever.

I would say that it depends on how long you plan to own the home. If you have dreams of a McMansion down the road, I would say- conventional and if you don't have good, state control of natural gas prices, go with a high efficiency heat pump for heating and cooling.

Are you on natural gas or propane?

It is natural gas- And this house we plan to stay in and add an addition if nessicary down the road- no plans to move.

my parents leave in the same general area and pay over $10 per mcf i believe.

Clay,

It still sounds to me like this would be a good idea. Since you need to buy a heating and cooling system, you would be smart to go geo. The pay back for you is really no different than any one else.

Thanks Geo Dean, Can you give me an idea of the costs of the install, ball park? do you think it would exceeded 12- 15k? including everything?

Do you have room to go with a horizontal loop?
Does your ductwork need to be redone?
Is your electrical service big enough?

Electric is 200amp- I do have the room for the horizontal loop- ductwork is from previous central airconditioning system so not sure if that will be ok or not.

I have no idea of labor rates in your area....you might get it done for 15K, maybe less maybe more. It is best just to call some installers, get some bids, give us the numbers and let us review them.

My opinion on ROI

any system adds the line NEW MECH. in a sale add if you where to ever re-sell

which is a huge plus and does add/maintain the value of your new home

a geo system unlike a standard or even high eff. system is a huge wow factor ( cant put a number on it but I know I would pay more for a home with geo , as I imagine you would )

I dont know about you but around here oil is big , current prices put a geo between 2times and 1.5

while this may seem like a big investment to at best cut costs in half

the price of fuel will go back up its just a matter of when , I think we can all agree its a matter of time

on the other hand there is much less of a chance that the cost of a geo system will decrease

In fact unfortunately the cost will climb with the cost of labor

Right now there are deals to be found , allot of good companies cutting profits to near 0 to keep there guys working

If you can find a good contractor with a good deal jump on it when oil prices go back up those opportunities will be gone

Also the plan of lumping the cost in with another loan will make you life allot easier

Just my bias opinion

Claybuster:

I don't think you were looking for opinions from homeowners, but I'm still going to throw in mine  :o)

I had my geo system installed last September.  Before that I used fuel oil on a boiler that was only 4 years old (~82% efficiency).  My husband and I were not comfortable with being at the mercy of what we felt were unreasonable fuel price swings.  Well, as soon as our geo system was installed, fuel oil prices went BELOW what they were the previous year.  But, even with this plummet in price, to date, we have spent approximately $1,000 less than we would have if we had fuel oil.  (we have a 3 ton unit).

Is there a way for you to find out how much natural gas the previous owners used?  In New York you have the right to get one year of usage info when you move into a new home.  This might give you some insight as to the BTUs needed to heat the home.

Also, as previously recommended, I would call several IGSHPA certified geo intallers.  Attached is a pdf of the list for Ohio.  I would get some estimates and compare to the high efficiency units you are also considering.  You may find out that the difference is not too extreme. 

Most people want actual dollar figures.  I'll tell you what I spent, but don't get scared off because I had a 3 ton, two zone, two/three stage system installed.  Furthermore, this figure includes retrofitting ductwork (I used to have radiators) in a 75 yr old 2 story farmhouse and a drilled 450 ft closed loop well.  My total cost for my geo system was $38K. 

I am very happy with my system and am REALLY looking forward to having air conditioning for the first time since I've lived in Upstate New York!

Good Luck!
Ona

Ona, thanks for the great info, and the list!!!!- I am definnitly interested in home owners opinions costs, benifits etc - esp for smaller homes --- ya the install cost is the scary thing and really anything over about 12-15k will be to much for me to afford, estimates are the next step -im hoping that it will be possible, but I am not having just anyone install it, I have read to much on this board that the installer is almost more important then the system. Id prefer to wait a yr or two if I can't afford it and have it installed right then have a cheaper quote and some fly by night system put in.

No problem Claybuster.

I believe that $15K - $20K of my price went to the duct installation and drilling, so your price may end up being in the right ballpark!

As for my experience with geo installers, we went with the guy we had the most confidence in who also fit our personalities the best. We had one estimate that was lower and two that were higher than his, but he stood out as an experienced and patient contractor. He spent two hours with us on his initial visit! He also started measurements for a manual J calc during the first visit and came out the next week to finish measurements to do a good manual J calc. That showed me that even with his 27 years of experience, he still used the science rather than rule of thumb - and this was important to me. I had one exceptionally shmoozy installer who was crossed off the list immediately because I knew I would not get along with him. He may have been outstanding as an installer, but if I didn't really trust him it didn't matter. So, I guess my advice would be to go with someone who has good references but also who matches your personality. The reason I say this is because issues might come up along the way of an installation and if you are working with someone who you are just not sure about these issues may not be resolved to your satisfaction.

Good Luck!

Clay,
I recently did a viability study and presentation to the Livonia housing commission to try to arrange HUD funding for projects in similar sized homes. In our worst case scenario presented, we had a guestimated 15 yr payback on <17K$ systems. If you were to deduct the tax credit and a high end furnace and air you could be under 10 years or even 7 if you are able to go horizontal. There are many variables, but this SE Michigan example may be helpful to you.
We've worked as close to you as the Toledo area so have some idea of local pricing, but it does vary regionally.
Good Luck,
Joe

Ya I think part of what makes Geo an attractive option is that I have to replace the HVAC system anyways. so its money thats gonna be spent any way you slice it. I also am a firm believe that while natural gas isn't as expenseive as oil- someday soon it could be and to be totally honest if the geothermal is done right on a house this size my electric bill shouldn't be too bad and so I may just have the gas shut off all together and make the house totally electric and then just try to make sure all applicances are energy star and the house is as insulated as well as it can be.

Bear in mind that Nat gas water heaters are still cheaper to operate than electric. Make sure you get good design advice, and check references.
J