This I know interests allot of pro's and owners out there . With a instrument to measure your watts you can calculate and change your power factor , decreasing heat which causes most electrical failures and decrease amp draw by eliminating wasted power

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_11/4.html

Or maybe the .85-.7 standard pf correction is good enough dont know how much the cost would be in measurements and material to determine your PF correction would be , but I rest assured come spring Im going to find out mine on the ac .99999 is the goal

Bear in mind you (unless you are a large industrial user) are billed for actual kWh consumed - no penalty for low power factor.

Assuming you took steps to correct low power factor in your home, you would realize no temperature reduction or durability increase for individual appliances - each has its own power factor which is not affected by others. In extreme cases your load center, meter can and step down transformer could be affected, but that equipment is engineered to avoid difficulty with PF.

A P3 Kill-A-Watt (~$30 from Amazon) indicates PF for plug loads, along with Watts, amps, volts, frequency, time since last power up and total kwh.

I realize that outside of extreme large loads the energy used to (recharge ) or just the draw of the cap. kills any benifit of those whole house systems , my thinking is keep my compressor cool ( which I beleive COULD hold some potential to increase life ) and I just find it interesting

Ok, I know this is a little off topic to power factor, but I thought it might be worth mentioning on ways to reduce the power needs for a geothermal system.

Pumps, most geothermal systems have them. Efficiency of the mechanical and electrical factors for pumps in general leave a lot to be desired.

One example, in an open loop system, the well pump may draw more current then it really needs to. Things that can play a factor, the depth of the pump, the supply pressure, and the overall design. There are some companies offering variable speed well pumps that claim savings by suppling only the volume of water demanded. Turn on a faucet and the pump turns slow, turn on the geothermal unit, demand goes up, and the pump turns faster to supply the water needs. They maintain a set pressure throughout all demand levels.

About a year ago I started looking into the current draw of my well pump. It seemed to be much higher to me then it should be. Below is the specification for my submerged well pump.

Submersible Pump Motor, Capacitor-Start, Totally Enclosed Nonventilated, 1/2 HP, 3450 RPM, 230 Volts, 1 Phase, Service Factor 1.60, Full Load Amps 5.0/3.5, Max SF Amps 6.0/4.3, Thrust Rating 300 Lb, Number of Wires 3, Thermal Protection Auto, Mounting NEMA, Diameter 4 In, Control Box Required 1LZV8, Amps for CSIR/CSCR Control Boxes 6.0/4.3

Note the S.F. amperage rating, 6.0/4.3. This confused me at first why there were two numbers. Long story short I ended up talking with a Franklin pump engineer. All of these pumps have a matching control box that is installed at the same time as the pump and they are a matched set. In the case of my pump they offer two types. One uses capacitor start, induction run, and the other capacitor start, capacitor run. The induction run control draws 6.0 amps, this is the one I had, and the capacitor run control box draws 4.0 amps, the one I ended up installing! According to the Franklin engineer there is no loss of pump performance changing to CSCR. Changing to the lower amperage controller ended up giving a payback in less then a year in electricity usage.

I haven't seen anything on it, but I wonder if savings like to one above are available for closed loop pump systems?

The power consumed by your compressor is determined by the amount of work (i.e. compressing refrigerant) it has to do, not the power factor of the electrical supply. Changing the power factor will not change how hot or cool your compressor is - all you're doing is helping the electric utility by reducing the amount of current sloshing around that's not doing any useful work. You electric meter measures your actual power consumption, the power factor makes no difference here. The run capacitor effectively consumes no power either - it just tries to tune the inductive circuit that the compressor represents in order to bring the voltage and current back in phase.

Paul

By the way, capacitors are rated by their capacity, not "charge". The starting current of the compressor is determined by the LRA (locked rotor amps), not by the size of the start capacitor. The run current depends on the load on the compressor and the capacitor has no bearing on this at all.

Paul.

This was you right , funny after proving with out a doubt that capacitors have a direct relationship with with current ( amp ) you say nothing , then you chime in again to tell me that a cap ( essentialy a batteriey ) does not consume power or have a loss while the system is off ( electritians refer to it as phantom currunt )
At the very least by decreasing currunt you decrease wire resistance and loss . again at the very least Ill be happy to post a few hundred articles about why cap start cap run motors are used , just wondering is your compressor shaded pole ? If they do nothing why are they there?

Again thanks though

While it is true no measurable savings are to be expected for cust charged in KWH , most power companys have rebates which in ct is 150% of cust cost for achieving .97 and up
Also the idea to switch to charging for KVA in residential is being kicked around by more then a few to offset the cost of upsizing grid capacity .
saying darn the power companys is one thing untill they raise there rates to offset your KVA

I don't want to get into a pointless argument with you over the merits or otherwise of improving the powerfactor. The start capacitor is required because a single phase induction motor is not self starting. The run capacitor does attempt to improve the power factor and, as you rightly say, reduces the I^2R losses in the supply wiring - but it doesn't change the power consumption -> this is purely determined by the load on the compressor. Neither the start nor the run capacitor are energize when the compressor is off so there are no phantom losses. Even though the run cap is electrolytic (and hence lossy) it's switched out as soon as the compressor is running.  It's not that the capacitors do nothing, but they don't change the power consumption of the system - and it's the power consumption that the utility company pays for. Power companies like unity power factor loads since they can use the minimum gauge wire for the supply - the worse the power factor, the higher the current (power doesn't change) and hence they would need thicker wires = more cost.

For what it's worth, I have 3 degrees in electrical engineering and electronics, though I must admit it's a while since I did the course on induction motors (early 1980s).

The sad part is that many people are fooled into buying power factor correction boxes thinking that they can save on their utility bills; they just don't work in a residential situation.

Paul.

See http://www.iprocessmart.com/leeson/leeson_singlephase_article.htm - this covers all types of single phase AC synchronous motors from induction start / induction run through permanent split capacitor to cap start cap run as well as shaded pole.

The main advantage of a cap start is high starting torque. Cap run has a higher power factor than induction run so, for a given power, you need less current in the supply wires as the voltage and current are closer in phase than an induction run motor. Now it could be that a cap run motor is more efficient than an induction run one because the auxiliary windings can be optimized in the cap run case and hence lower heating losses - so you may see some small savings. At full load, there's no difference between cap start / induction run and cap start / cap run - but at less than ful load, a cap start cap run motor is more efficient.

Other than that, cap start / cap run motors cost slightly more because there's the cost of the run capacitor (plus one more thing to fail).

Hope this helps,

Paul.

Ok this is a conversation , I do not want to argue , Just felt attacked by the absolute your wrong shut up vibe I got from your post , and I very well may being just a lowly service tech

One thing that I do know better then most is standard contactors which are installed on HVAC equip ( with very few exceptions ) these contactors are 220volt single pole , For those of you in the dark and I doubt that is many .

A single pole contactor breaks L1 , while L2 is never broken , Ironically this is where the cap is hooked up . So while the the unit is off there is still power . I questioned it once in school and my teacher ( whos word is good as gold to me ) told me the reason a single pole comes from the factory is 2 reasons cost of parts minor , maintain charge of cap major .

Considering the 3 degrees in electrical engineering can you explain , when we talk about motor eff ( required start torque and other factors left out for now ) what is it in reference to, simply PF . And are there any other benefits to a good power factor ie lower magnetic field , less electronic interference so on ( I dont know not a loaded question )

I not now or ever have endorsed the PF correction systems sold at 2 am on QVC , I cant fathom how they dont over correct especially Resistance loads . I  am , and always have ben trying to wrap my brain around things way outside my pay grade , and constantly thinking (and typing ) out ideas on how to improve/optimize geothermal ( and other hvac ) equipment