I got some advice from the ICF forum to copy this post over here, looking for some HVAC expertise. I apologize in advance for the long-winded story.....

This is an air source heat pump, not geo. 4 ton, 16 Seer, dual stage. HELP :(

New member here from the frigid cold of Ohio. Let me start by saying that I have enjoyed for months reading through many of your posts about ICF construction. After taking the plunge and investing in the product, I need your help....

My wife and I have just moved into our newly constructed home. 3200 sq. ft. two-story with first-floor master suite. Walkout basement, currently not finished. Entire house is ICF, attic is R-38 cellulose.

We spent considerable time researching the HVAC system as to not "buy a ferrari and put in a yugo engine," and decided to go with the Carrier Infinity packaged heat pump with variable air handler and 3 zones. Our main decision here was based on the calculated load requirements of the home being much less than the smallest gas furnace and humidity considerations, and decided to not to consider additional investment into the Hybrid heat option due to the Manual J figures, estimating annual costs to heat/cool the home with this equipment at $1400, which we found very reasonable. (No natural gas is available, so propane would be our gas option)

The temp is set at 68 degrees mostly, with a setback to 66 during the night and day when unoccupied in the main zone (first floor). The second floor is set at 65 (currently not occupied, my wife is expecting our first child in June) and the basement is very low at around 60.

Now to the point.....SOMETHING IS SERIOUSLY WRONG!!! The electric heat was fired up around 10/31 during construction for paint, flooring, etc. I was astounded to see my Kwh usage for the first 2 weeks until my meter was read to be around 2,000. So I thought ok, it's electric resistance heat, which is expensive. So I got on the builder to get the heat pump and zoning installed. The delay was the excavation getting the grade built up to the needed level to set the heat pump. Needless to say, it didn't happen very timely, 30 days went by, and my usage from 11/15-12/15 topped 5500 Kwh! Finally, on 12/30 my heat pump was installed and programmed, etc. So I prepared myself for the big recovery, but it never came.....

Usage from 12/30 - 1/15, another 2000 Kwh. Now I am tracking daily at the meter....246, 313, 185, 197 since the 15th. Now granted, the 16th and 17th were the coldest days so far this winter with average temps around 0 degrees F, but this usage seems crazy to me.

Now I can tell you, that the distributor for Carrier has been trying to get the Carrier product in front of this builder for some time and through my deal on the Carrier package, the builder was able to get a blower door test performed, the results of which I have yet to see, but have been told they were fantastic. The only recommendation that came was a sealing of all can lights on the second story (even though they are supposed to be manufactured that way :( ). In any event, there are only 8 of them, and that was done.

Wow, I've gone on forever, thanks to those still with me. Currently, the builder is talking with the contractor and the distributor, etc. Everyone is obviously busy with the season low temps and the family who has amazingly comfortable heat at a very expensive price takes a definite back seat to those with no heat at all.....waiting on a service call...but my bills since 10/31 have topped the $1400 annual estimate from the manual J calcs.

Any HVAC experts out there? This has to be a mistake right? My air handler or heat pump has to be defective or installed/wired incorrectly, right? I am ready to find and solve this problem, unlike others who spout that ICF is not worth the cost, just feeling a bit overwhelmed after all of the investment in the ICF and the Carrier system....I'm a modest guy with a modest lifestyle, this is truly my dream home and we plan to be there a very very long time......Based on all the research, ICF made great sense, Carrier Infinity made great sense, but the results are not matching the research!

The Carrier system is a 16 SEER, the SHPF is 9.5 or 10 (can't remember exactly), but very high efficiency. I can get the exact models if it makes a difference.

I should probably note that I have ruled out a faulty meter and something else causing the usage by turning the system off for a full 24 hour period and using only about 22 Kwh. with outside temps in the 20's, the house never got below 60 in that period which I thought was pretty amazing and further supported that my heat loss is very good. However, even at 60 degrees, my wife did not appreciate my experiment. :)

Thanks for listening and thanks in advance for any ideas....

Mike

The first problem that comes to mind is that it was used as construction heat. Contractors (usually the general contractor) always say they'll change/clean the filter every day. They swear that they'll keep the system clean, and doors and windows shut.

This is a bunch of Bull. They don't care about the home owner having to deal with a system that's never going to see the efficiency it could have if it would have been kept clean. They never keep it clean. All they want to do is not pay for their own construction heat, and move on to the next project. I don't care how good of a general contractor you think he is, if he uses the homeowner's installed system for construction heat, HE DOESN'T CARE and should be fired. He knew he'd be building in the winter, and should buy some temporary furnaces vented out through windows to temporarily heat the home.

Anyway, I'd start by really looking at the coil to see if it's really clean, or full of sheetrock and other dust.

Next, you need to have the installer verify the heat pump's performance. If he doesn't know how, tell him to find out from Carrier. There could be a bad capacitor, causing the unit to use more power, and put out less capacity.

What's your electric rate? What's the balance point of the system for your home? Balance point is the outside temp. when the electric backup heat needs to supplement the heat pump's output.

Where are you located?

Hope you can get this figured out, and I hope we can help.

That's a great start Tim, thank you.

All good questions to cover if I can ever get them out for a service call. I have to admit I've tried paying attention to how and when it's running and what it's doing but have never had a HP before and struggle to discern between the cycles that it's making, there are several very distinct sounding operations coming from the air handler. It does seem like the HP runs quite a bit, even when the system is not calling for heat, but I understand that this is normal for HP's.

I am in Orrville, OH.....closet major city (and weather reporting station) is Wooster. My Kwh rate is 6.5 cents for Generation, all in delivered for about 11 cents. Can't say for sure on the balance point, but I believe I remeber the tech or salesman saying that based on the small load it would operate down into the 20's before needing the auxillary back-up.

My wife and I are just pretty bummed to have invested all this money and not see the results we hoped for. Finding the problem is key and then figuring out how to resolve and who (if anyone) we can hold responsible for it....

Thanks again.

You're certainly not the first, but my name is Clark. no offense taken...

I noticed no where in your post it says you checked your filter. Anytime contruction work is done on your house, you should replace the air filters on the heating system. They are most likely clogged with contruction dust from sheetrock, sawing, etc. 

I hate my ASHP with a passion, but the newer systems are suppose to be better at extracting heat at colder temperatures, but it will still go into "defost" mode where is running to defrost itself and not heating you house. The colder it is, more often it defosts. Giving the exterme cold temperatures we have suffered over the last month, I am not suprised bills are higher then usual.

 

 

 

Really hate to pass on some bad news , once you get below 30 and especially 20 eff. doesn't matter , and you are getting the vast majority of your heat from your back up heat strips , dirty coils yeah but those Infinity systems usually have good filters . 100% agree about contractors using the owners system . Also take a feel of the vapor line ( big insulated one ) if its warm , your heat pump isn't doing much could be charge or just outdoor temp , if its hot your getting good heat from the outside and need to see what is controlling your back up . ASHP should have outdoor temp sensors to shut down the heat pump when it gets cold enough to justify , and limit the use of aux heat above those temps , which I beleive is stock on those systems which COULD indicate impropper low voltage hook up

geo, thanks for the info I will take a look.

Clark, sorry about that....honest mistake.....thanks for the reply.

Finally got the service appointment set for Thursday afternoon to inspect and diagnose the system.....more to come!

Thanks to all for taking the time to read.

Mike