Hey Guys I've been watching this forum for a while, I had a Hydrodelta mega tech for about 2 years and never really saw any savings. it lost its charge (referigerant) my contractor finally found the leak the evaporator coil (air coil) then the compressor siezed. my contractor put in a climatemaster tranquility 27 July 07. feb 09 comp went into lock out. low referigerant low ground loop pressure. they charged the sys and purged the ground loop and set the loop press to 40psi(northern Delaware). in July the system was making a high pitch noise 10 deg F differance in the input air & output air on stage 2. bottom line, low on referigerant and low ground loop pressure. the air coil is leaking (&wet with oil)and the ground loop pressure is back down to 4 psi. I seem to have a spot in the yard that has setteled more than the rest from day 1, so i think i know where the loop pressure is going.(now the question sorry for the longwindedness)do you think the leaky ground loop could have played a part in both of these systems air coils going bad or am I just extremely UNLUCKY (no I cant seem to hit the lottery either!!) I hope you can make sence of this. (closed loop sys) Middle of a heat wave too, just tryin to deal with it!! Thanks guys

I thought it was a stretch

Are you still working with the original installer? What was the starting loop pressure? Hot loops can actually expand and drop pressure. As a trouble shooter I'm skeptical of 2 problems at once as well as two units with bad aircoils what are the credentials of the installer(s).
What did you think was a stretch?
Good luck,
Joe

No I'm not working with the original installer. I understand your skeptisism. i'm an auto tech so i know where your coming from. the ground loop was set to 40psi in feb (cold)when the air was purged from the loop. I dont know what the loop pressure was set at prior to finding it at 4psi in feb. set to 20psi end of july 12 days later was back to 4psi. I thought it was a stretch that a leaky air coil could be a result or byproduct of a leaky ground loop. i do know the loop was air pressure tested at 100psi for 2 days prior to being buried. The unit I currently have is a climatemaster tranquility 27

I could use some good luck
Thanks
Gary

Poor water pressure could mimic low refrigerant pressures in some circumstances. It sounds like it's safe to say you have a leak. Unfortunately the amount of water lost is not a terrific quantity so it may or may not account for the sinkhole in your field.
You could certainly start the search there.
RE the leaky evaporator the unit should have been charged when it arrived. If it was then; a leak is not likely to start a month or so later (unless installer ran a screw through the coil).
To find the loop leak you may have to dig up header and pinch off 1 circuit at a time until pressure holds....then replace that loop.
Did you have a second installer for the second heat pump?
Is either installer IGSHPA Certified?
Have you checked references of either installer?
Who do we use to help you out from here?
j

Hey joe
no there not certified the only certified guy in the area I called and he didn't want to get involved in someone elses ball of crap. now naturally he didn't say that but that's what i got from the conversation. well digger guy was here today. he doesn't think i have a leak. he said that if the loop was leaking the circulation pumps would pump all (or alot of) the fluid out of the loop. is that true? I checked the pressure today with a new gauge 11 Psi. i set the pressure to 35psi It didnt take much water at all. I guess i'll see what it looks like tomorrow. the coil is supposed to be here next week. at least i have a couple of window units keeping 2 rooms livable. what would you use to check the freezability of environal(i think thats the name blue fluid strong alcohol smell) in the ground loop?

There are testors for antifreeze. Check the IGSHPA website for other certified people in your area.
I'm not crazy about opening the refrigeration system with outanother opinion. Was the heat pump low on freon when it arrived?
j

I don't know if it was low when it arrived. it was installed in june 07 . dec 23 08 it went into lockout no compressor operation. loop press was low and sounded airated. they brought the flush cart in there was a good amount of air in the system, they set the pressure(i don't know at what press.) 2 hours after they left comp went into lockout again. they came back and said pressure was good and checked referigerant they said it was low and topped it off. said the schrader valve was leaking. replaced schrader valve in feb( I was skeptical but ok). mid july comp making high pitch noise on stage 2, 10 deg differance in input air and output air (i'm becoming more involved) they come out ground loop press 4psi they set it to 20 with a garden hose from my hot water heater. noise still there temps no better. referigerant they low top off and check for leaks. said no leaks found stage 2 temp diff now 24 Deg. end of july noise back temp diff 10 deg, i call them and bring my leak detector home( yokogawa H-10pm)no leaks detected in the bottom (comp & such) leak detected in air coil, oil on coil. they come out and verified. i checked loop pressure 11 psi. set loop to 35 yesterday 8-26 (unit not running) making sure not to put any air in it Cold water( it didnt take much at all less than 1 qt est). today its 25, I will bring it back up tomorrow am (best water press). could the coolant take a little time to equalize pressure throughout the entire loop (pumps not running) i figure 1200 linear feet? would it hurt to leave a pressure gauge in the p/t port?

No harm as long as it doesn't leak on the ga.
What flow center do u have?

Hydroflow with 2 grundfos pumps

On one forum we had an H/O that discovered one of his pumps was leaking. It was scarcely noticeable (a quart over several weeks). Try surrounding that with tissue paper or something that would would identify a leak.
I'm still not crazy about getting into the evap coil question without another expert (on site) opinion.
J

no im not doin the coil, a professional hvac guy is doin that, i wouldn't do that, I do know my limitations. A guy from Calvert heating is doin it. it's still under warranty anyway. they install waterfurnace but there the most knowlegable that i found. i'm payin what climatemaster isn't covering. my ground loop is holding steady at 25 i think i'll be ok. still gonna bring it up more when i can. thanks for the advice.