When a geothermal system locks out in heating mode, backup or auxiliary heat can be engaged and mask the problem until you happen to notice there is a problem by:

looking at the unit and see a fault light;
possibly see a system monitor error on your thermostat (if so equipped and wired);
notice that the system sounds different;
notice the smell of burning dust coming off the heat strip wires;
or get an extremely high utility bill.

I'd rather find out as soon as possible so I can either correct the problem (if I can) or call the installer.  I can't be the only person interested in having a more obvious alert when their system locks out.  Even if I am, I'd still appreciate suggestions. 

I have a 24vdc terminal on our equipment that is energized when the system locks out.  Maybe have this power a buzzer, light, a relay, something that shocks the dog every 3 seconds (just kidding).  Any suggestions?  Maybe a buzzer with a volume control?

I've had one lockout event. An outside worker mistook my open loop drain line for a garden hose left running, found a valve I shouldn't have included in the system, and closed it. Thermostat alerted wife to condition while I was out of state. I talked her through finding the valve, reopening it, cycling power to the geo, and all was then well.

I'd be careful here.  It may be a 5 VAC signal.

One way to check is to reroute a wire, that ordinarily passes through the Comfort Alert, around the Comfort Alert, rehook it up properly, and then start the system up.  This will deliberately trigger the signal from the Envision's LO terminal.  Get a volt meter and determine if it's AC or DC, and how much voltage.

WaterFurnace's documentation says 0-5 VAC.

Best regards,

Bill

Thanks for the correction. This is from the WF Envision Installation Manual: "Thermostat Selection - Configures the control for a pulsed lockout signal (ComforTalk and FaultFlash thermostats) or continuous 5 VAC lockout signal."

The Prestige output voltage is not listed in the Prestige manual, only that there is output when the system is in emergency heat mode. From the VisionPro manual, the VisionPro has a 24 VAC output when the system is in emergency heat mode. I don't know if this is the same for the Prestige.

In another area of the Prestige manual, it describes the L terminal as a "Heat pump reset (powered continuously when System is set to Em Heat; system monitor when set to Heat, Cool or Off)." I hadn't noticed this wording (including the word "reset") before since it is on another page of the manual.

I'm working with the installer to get the Prestige alert working with him since the thermostat is still under warranty. Would still like specific input from anyone here on audible methods of alerting a person to a lockout. Our installer told me that some of his customers wait until they get a $600 electric bill before noticing or calling about a lockout.

Geome

This should get your attention! You can wire it right inside box and still hear it several floors away and the right voltage too. Just remember I told you it always happens at 4 am.

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&pa=1956776&productId=1956776&keyCode=WSF&cid=GMC

Great find! Is the Maximum Supply Current of 1.5 mA ok? I'll try to find a local company that has them since they want $8.50 to ship, but beggars can't be choosers, so I'll go with them if necessary.

4 am is ok to save me aux heating costs! I will definitely wire in a switch though, so the wires won't be ripped out by some half awake mad-man or mad-woman, (well, hopefully not).

What is the easiest & safest way to force a lockout?
Bill, I didn't quite follow all of your instructions: "One way to check is to reroute a wire, that ordinarily passes through the Comfort Alert, around the Comfort Alert, rehook it up properly, and then start the system up. This will deliberately trigger the signal from the Envision's LO terminal." So, I should disconnect any Comfort Alert wire, and route it where before re-connecting it? Thank you.

If you look carefully at the CA, you'll see that most wires route *through* it, versus connect to it.

Simply select one of the wires that passes through the CA, disconnect it at wherever a convinient connection point it, pull it out of the CA, and hook it back up to it's original connection point.  All you've done is essentially rerouted the wire around, versus through the CA.

This will force a 5 VAC signal at the Envision's LO terminal at system start up.

I thought I saw a comment from you that you're not real comfortable with electricity, or something to that effect.  If so, this definitely isn't something I'd recommend you try to do.  Without proper precautions, such as removal of jewelry, wearing shoes, turning off power, etc., it would be easy to electrocute yourself.

And don't forget where you disconnect a wire from - reconnection at the wrong place could easily damage the unit.

Best regards,

Bill

Thanks Bill. I've put in outlets, changed switches, etc., but I still keep a healthy respect for electricity. Guess having a few drinks for some courage isn't a good idea before hand (JUST KIDDING!!!). How much of this should be done with the power off vs on? I assume the system should be "off" until everything is reconnected. Are any wires running through the Comfort Alert more forgiving than others (lower voltage)?

Has anyone heard from Joe? It's been a while since I've seen a post from him.

If it was me, I'd turn off the power at the disconnect next to the unit, to be on the safe side.  When you turn it back on, you'll have to wait for appropriate start up delays.

In fact, if it was me, I'd check for absence of 240 VAC after turning off the disconnect, just to make sure.

The wires that pass through the CA are all wires that go to / from the compressor.  It shouldn't make any difference which one you choose.  I'd choose the one that's easiest to mess with, and is easiest to connect / disconnect.

Be careful.

Best regards,

Bill

geome

First I was half kidding about the buzzer. It puts out 90db. But if that is ok with you.

Don't do anything with the ComfortAlert. I has its own communication protocol with the envision control board. The control board interprets the signal from the CA and the control board decides to lockout or not. The buzzer just gets wired between LO (lockout) and C (common).

The easiest why to force a lockout without subjecting the unit to any stress is to short the condensate overflow sensor to ground. I know yours is a split but the connections are still there.
-With power off connect a jumper wire from terminal #12 connector block P6 (it is a 16 space block with nothing connected to it) on the Envision control board -to- terminal #14 right next to it.
-Power unit and cover your ears (I'm not sure you might have to wait for a compressor call).

GOJoe, very helpful to know!  Much safer.

Many thanks!

Best regards,

Bill

If you pull one of the black wires from the high pressure switch you will get instant lock out
(no fault retry). I suggest you power down the unit before removing wire.
Have fun trying to read L voltage because my fluke 12 could not read it. High impedance  DC output. There is no useful voltage there to operate a relay. However WF has ARB board that can read the L signal and has a low voltage set of dry contacts SPDT.

Interesting.

Not surprised. 

I learned a while back, when I first installed my WEL monitoring system, that there's a DC component of some kind on the Envision's tstat wires (Y1, Y2, etc.).  Finding this forced me to scratch my initial design for interface to these terminals.  Instead I went to a full isolation design (24 V relays) (which continues to work fine).

Thanks for tip on how to easily force a lockout without impact to the unit.

Best regards,

Bill

Our installer called me back. He was unable to obtain a consensus from Honeywell and Water Furnace on how to wire an alerts and guarantee that there would be no problems with their equipment. Our installer suggested, as was also suggested here, isolation relays to avoid any potential problems. To save a few bucks I will have this done at the same time as our spring check in March or April.

Does anyone know if one relay could send power both to the alert system on the thermostat, and also to a buzzer (or would two relays would be needed)? If one relay, would it be a special type? Where would I get such an animal? I'm not very familiar with relays and wiring of this type. Thanks!

I'll also ask about the ARB board when I speak to the installer again.

The installer was out today to check on our split system noise level. Unfortunately, nighttime is when the noise is much more noticeable due to lower ambient sounds, so we are not doing anything beyond switching the T1 and T2 lines at this point.

While he was here, he installed ARB boards on both our units. The boards are small things, maybe 1" wide x 3" long. The alert on the first floor thermostat is working well. The alert on the second floor thermostat is currently not functioning due to a broken wire running from the air handler to the thermostat (the old thermostat wire was used.) Next month, the wire will be replaced when they come out for a spring check.

I plan to buy 2 voltage appropriate buzzers and switches to use as well so I will be audibly alerted if either system locks out. The switch is so I can turn off the buzzer after I am notified of the lockout (and so I won't be tempted to rip the buzzer off there is a lockout in the middle of the night and the buzzer goes off.)

I plan to buy 2 voltage appropriate buzzers and switches to use as well so I will be audibly alerted if either system locks out.


24V AC sounds like a good number to me.

geotek,
I agree. Would the buzzer that G.O. Joe found for 5 VAC (when we thought we would need a 5 volt buzzer) still be ok to use?
https://www.eio.com/p-18045-velleman-tv1-piezo-transducer-5vac-40khz-85db-lead-type.aspx

The Typical Operating Supply Voltage is 5VAC, but the Maximum Operating Supply Voltage is 28VAC. I know 24 is between 5 and 28, but since 24 is at the upper end I wasn't sure if the buzzer would be more likely to go bad. Would I be better off with a buzzer designed for 24VAC? I'm just trying to do this once and get it right the first time.

Good recommendation on the ARB, by the way. 

Use the R and C terminal on the unit or thermostat 24V AC all the time.
I don't know where he got 5V AC but you don't want it anyway.
You can break R through the ARB to power you buzzer.
KISS rules.

I may not have explained this well. The ARB is completely hooked up and is providing 24 VAC on the output side. Upon re-reading the buzzer manufactures specs, I see that they state operating voltage is 3-28Vac, so this one should be fine. (Low voltage AC buzzers don't appear to be nearly as common as DC.)

The 5Vac came from the idea of hooking up the buzzer directly to the LO terminal, but decided to go with the ARB instead to safely connect the thermostat alert as well. Thanks to all who contributed.