Verical vs. Horizontal
Last Post 15 Mar 2010 08:13 PM by Down2Earth Geothermal. 11 Replies.
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Boontucky-girlUser is Offline
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26 Feb 2010 02:54 PM
I'm quoting geo for our house and statement was made by a contractor:

"Vertical wells are better because they go deeper, and we grout from the bottom up eliminating air pockets. With horizontal bored loops air pockets can remain affecting the  heat transfer of the loops. We do horizontal loops by digging with an excavator and that way the air pocket issue is eliminated"

They are a well drilling company, so I find this very biased. but is this true? His quote would be a lot cheaper if we went with horizontal loops vs. vertical loops, but then he'll tear out our yard, and cleanup is on us.

Thanks for any comments.

geomeUser is Offline
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26 Feb 2010 03:21 PM
The dirt back filled into horizontal trenched loops will settle over time (rain helps a lot, but still need time). We chose to save $5,000-$7,000 going with horizontal trenches as opposed to vertical. Savings should more than pay for the yard restoration in my opinion. If I went through this process again, I would rough grade 6 months after the installer's rough grade. Then, 6 months after that, finish grade and seed. Get other opinions though. This is what would have worked better for us. It can be messy until the grass grows.
Homeowner with WF Envision NDV038 (packaged) & NDZ026 (split), one 3000' 4 pipe closed horizontal ground loop, Prestige thermostats, desuperheaters, 85 gal. Marathon.
waterpirateUser is Offline
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26 Feb 2010 07:00 PM

To answer your question, maybe.  When horizontal or vertical drilling is done correctly the result is a heat exchanger that works well.  When excavation is done for horizontal loops in any configuration correctly, the result is a heat exchanger that works well.
There is no short answer.  You and the installer you choose must sift through all the options and pick the one that is most cost efficent for the specific area that it is to be installed.  Hope this helps

Eric Sackett<br>www.weberwelldrilling.com<br >Visit our Geothermal Resource Center!
joe.amiUser is Offline
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01 Mar 2010 08:22 AM
If I hear a well driller in my area use the efficiency argument again I'll pull the last of my hair out
While it is true in EVERY case that vertical loops are more efficient, it is also (around here) true that verticals use 1/2 the tube that I put into my horizontals. IOW the verticals are twice as efficient at transfering heat. This of course has no impact on your utility bill.
Not too many well drillers are going to leave your yard unharmed either.
There are lots of reasons for vertical installations, but savings and preserving your landscaping will never be among them.
j
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
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waterpirateUser is Offline
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01 Mar 2010 12:13 PM
Hey Joe,
Vertical is more efficient!

Now lets see that last hair?
Eric Sackett<br>www.weberwelldrilling.com<br >Visit our Geothermal Resource Center!
Boontucky-girlUser is Offline
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12 Mar 2010 11:53 AM
Thank you for the replies. We like this one contractor and we have 10 acres of land so we'd like to do the horizontal loops since they would be more economic, but to go with him, he'd use an excavator and the problem with that besides clean up is the location where they would have to go to get to our mechanical room would mean going under driveway slab. So we think horizontal boring would be better, as they could come up under the slab. But the comment of air pockets in horizontal boring got me thinking about drilling under the footings of the house, and of course settling and cracked drywall, or worse, cracked concrete wall in the future.

Is that something to worry about?

Thanks.
Down2Earth GeothermalUser is Offline
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12 Mar 2010 08:07 PM
Horizontal borings don't generally have problems with air pockets (like trenches) since they don't really drill anything as much as they "disturb" the earth and pull the pipes through this disturbed earth. Of course, you need to make sure that the lithology allows for horizontal directional drilling since it is economical only in unconsolidated formations. If air pockets are a concern, grout can be backfilled as the pipe is pulled back similar to a vertical boring.

-Adam
Hydrogeologist
geotekUser is Offline
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13 Mar 2010 08:02 AM
If your concerned about landscaping horizontal bore is a good alternative.
joe.amiUser is Offline
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15 Mar 2010 08:27 AM
B-girl,
If you are installing a horizontal field and then boring the header pipes under the drive, understand that air pockets in that short stretch would have no discernable impact on performance. So to that question, air pockets are not likely and even if they occur, they wont hurt anything.
Regarding the second half of your question, did the installer say he was going to dig under the footings?
J

Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
Boontucky-girlUser is Offline
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15 Mar 2010 03:04 PM
Down2Earth - "Of course, you need to make sure that the lithology allows for horizontal directional drilling since it is economical only in unconsolidated formations." This statement makes me think that some sort of soil study is involved, which I know none of the contractors around here do. They simply come out to take a look, look around and say, yeap no problem drilling/excavating here.

Joe - to install the horizontal field with contractor A it would be all work with a backhoe, since they don't have the equipment to horizontal bore (only vertical) and it would mean backhoeing the trench all the way to the house and drilling hole through concrete basement wall to get to the mechanical room without going through bedrooms. This wall happens to be located in the front which is under the driveway. So it would be all trenches.
To go with horizontal bore we'd have to hire another sub contractor B that can do that. This sub said he can go under the house footings and come up through the basement slab into the mechanical room.
BergyUser is Offline
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15 Mar 2010 04:30 PM
Posted By Boontucky-girl on 15 Mar 2010 03:04 PM
To go with horizontal bore we'd have to hire another sub contractor B that can do that. This sub said he can go under the house footings and come up through the basement slab into the mechanical room.

Boontucky-girl,

That's one of the nice things about horizontal boring. We cut a 2'X2' hole in the slab and the looper can come right up into the hole. After the loops are in, a little fill, a little cement and all you have are a supply and return pipe to the loop field.

Bergy
Down2Earth GeothermalUser is Offline
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15 Mar 2010 08:13 PM
Since you mentioned that you are in Iowa in another post, directional/horizontal drilling works well in just about the whole state due to thick unconsolidated deposits.  The only area that doesn't have thick glacial deposits is in the northeast corner of the state. A detailed depth to bedrock map can be seen at http://www.iowadot.gov/operationsresearch/reports/reports_pdf/hr_and_tr/reports/TR-571%20Final%20Report.pdf  Also, if you can get your horizontal borings below the local water table, then you will have the best performance out of your loops. 

-Adam
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