1. How about if you break up your post with bullet points
2. 
   
3. So that we can  identify your questions

Posted By fact finder on 19 Feb 2011 04:16 PM
......... as a potential customer, I have to have my questions answered below. (Context matters) To decide for myself, if geo would perform to my expectations.

1.) What does a "Geo Home Audit Report" actually mean to the geo Dealer?


It would nothing to me,   they are not used in our area


a.) Does the dealer DISCLOSE in WRITING the op info like: how to operate geo for best op efficiency?


We do this as standard practice


aa.) Explain the electric AUXILIARY HEATER ( called back-up-heat). Why is there a electric coil/strip heater needed in the first place?


The aux heat is used to lower the initial cost of the geo system.  With aux heat you can save thousands on the initial cost, and pay less than $100 per year to operate the aux heat.
Of course the system has be designed right.   When you hear stories of very high heating bills, it is usually the result of poor design and installation.

You can have a system where aux heat is not needed,  but it will cost you a lot more to install.


.................. as advertised over and over again by geo dealers: geothermal systems harness the power of the earth. NO telling of a AUXILIARY heater anywhere. (powered by Hydro).

There is plenty of talk about aux heat on this and other forums.  What you say is true of some dealers, but certainly not all.

The performance of geosystems is well documented on hundreds if not thousands of websites.   There are also horror stories on websites.   Your concerns seem to be with finding a reputable dealer.  We share your concern.

Your best defense is to get several estimates with references and check out the references. Look for  a dealer with several years of good reviews from customers.

Every dealer should be able to show you how much the aux heat might cost you in a year.  This number will be based on the 20 year weather average for your area.  The actual will be more or less depending on the severity of the winter.

Good luck

Posted By fact finder on 19 Feb 2011 04:16 PM
......... as a potential customer, I have to have my questions answered below. (Context matters) To decide for myself, if geo would perform to my expectations.

1.) What does a "Geo Home Audit Report" actually mean to the geo Dealer?
a.) Does the dealer DISCLOSE in WRITING the op info like: how to operate geo for best op efficiency?
aa.) Explain the electric AUXILIARY HEATER ( called back-up-heat). Why is there a electric coil/strip heater needed in the first place?
.................. as advertised over and over again by geo dealers: geothermal systems harness the power of the earth. NO telling of a AUXILIARY heater anywhere. (powered by Hydro).

Expectations are a big part of the geo sales process. The dealers with the fewest complaints pre-empt them by making sure their buyers understand the way their system will operate. We employ an operating cost calculation print out with a bin report that shows what pct of the hour a geo will run at a given temp. Op cost is identified in this presentation as is auxiliary contribution. 

Why the air-temp. and air-folume delivered to the heat-registers will also be way less compared to conventional fossil fuel systems.(50% of geo installations are retrofits).
This two points are often raised in combination for great comfort in a geo home.
Air temp is lower with geo but volume is often greater. Fossil sytems deliver at higher temps because they are less efficient. With new 2 stage furnace technology LAT's are getting cooler from furnaces as well. Satisfied geo customers generally report more even temps when they trade their furnace in for a geo.

2.) What does a geo (H-A-R) actually mean for a potential Home-Owner? What is the value, if any? Beside close to a dozen pages of paper.
I assume most potential customers are NOT Engineers (cooling/heating-duct-work design).
******** Quote by joe.ami

At this point I'm Not concerned what is included in the (H-A-R). I hope it is o.k. to disagree? I'm also NOT concerned with the age/insulation of the home.

Quote by joe. Posted 04 Jan. 2011 RE: geothermal in SE MI.? worth it in new construction...../ " above mentioned info takes no less then 3 hours to prepare and deliver but"....." it begs the question how many years does it take....? " I can only answer for mid MI. generally speaking, with tax credits,<10 years in a existing Home vs. < 7 years in a new built home vs. <7 years in a new built home. <5 years against propane or fuel oil".

******** "by the way, geo does not work in every situation nor do the numbers make sense for every body. More than once in this forum and the analogue world I have told folks geo was not for their needs".

Quote by joe. Posted Jan. 2011 10:06PM RE: Shoppers checklist.../ "SERIOUSLY, op calculations are the root of most any geo purchase. Therefore I presumed it went UNSAID. I NEVER had a customer ask about geo that DID NOT ASK what it would save them. (DISCLOSE in WRITING what it would save him).

Quote by Engineer. Posted 05 Feb.2011 10;45 PM RE: fact finder asks..../ " I second the shees, we are not designing a space-shuttle here-we have very discrete whole and occasionally half tonnage sizes to choose from. It is not uncommon to find a house and and system mismatched by the factor of 50% or more. No sane person sweats a missing foot of caulk or a fistful or removed ICF foam".

If I can reduce a 50% to 100% sizing error to 10% to 20% . I have performed a real service with measurable improvements in op cost and comfort".
The question begs again, who is paying for the screw-up's. AS a potential customer> I don't like the sinking feeling of: (Ups, I did not see this one coming)

35% to 70% op $savings are promoted aross the geo industry: 50% of geo installations are retrotit's.
I'm not sure what you are trying to illustrate with the quotes but there was context to them that you have removed. Certainly the 4 January quote you employed was an attempt to answer a question of yours - for you.

I don't promote 35% to 70% savings, I measure each house and calculate savings for each individual application. I mentioned this on the same post 4 Jan, but you inexplicably didn't include it in your quote.

When things go wrong I usually pick up the bill so we work very hard to avoid mistakes.

I told you what ~ payback for geo is in my area, why don't you get a local installer to tell you what it is in yours. They are the ones that have to win your confidence.
It really doesn't matter what we say.
Good luck,
Joe