Posted By engineer on 26 Mar 2011 10:16 PM
What in Sam Hill does "hybridize this modality" mean?

It's a necessary prerequisite for utilizing abeyant synergies.

I looked it up

During semi-annual system maintenance one must FIRST hybridize this modality THEN recalibrate the absquatulator

Under no circumstances perform the steps in reverse

Apologies folks. Seems I'm a bit too abstract for the engineering forum. I mean only that I wish to take the philosophy of "use what you got to do what you can" from my podunk farm influences, and advance them with analytic discussion on open forums with experts in the field, hopefully gaining insight and resources that will broaden my intellectual horizons and maybe, eventually, leading to the materialization of these avant-garde ideas. "Hybridize the modalities" seemed more succinct. Apparently my poetic jargon was too esoteric. I'll tone it down, mmmkay? Appreciate the sarcasm though. All in good fun.

I wish to take the philosophy of "use what you got to do what you can"


great philosophy, wish more folks shared that attitude. Most farming folks have a good pile of 'strategic reserves' and 'old machinery' out back in a pile someplace, which makes a great resource for projects.

Posted By jonr on 25 Mar 2011 08:11 PM

it would depend on how much the slab expands

Very very little (< .1 ").

Is there a formula to determine how much concrete expands? I can't believe it would be so little, how would you explain concrete blowouts where two slabs on a old cement highway without sufficient expansion joints expand and actually push the slabs sections several feet in the air. I say a basement slab would even be worst. Normally there are no expansion joints for concrete floors in basements, since the basement stays at pretty much the same temperature year round. I would guess that a good sized basement floor would expand several inches if heated enough. Sidewalks have a good 1/2 an inch spacer between sections, and they are considerably smaller then a basement floor. (maybe 4 ft x 4 ft), if concrete expands so little, why such a large spacer joint? 

Sure, you can look up the thermal expansion coefficient for concrete and do the math.

Posted By junkhound on 26 Mar 2011 09:57 AM
I'm coming from the horticulture community, where in a non-commercial (and sometimes commercial) sense, construction is often patchy and improvisational. I'm attempting to hybridize this modality with a more comprehensive forethought and expert opinion.

You need to spend at least a couple of weeks reading some good thermodynamics text or on-line research. Your 'PATCHY' admission and type of questions do show a total lack of understanding of the basic thermodynamic principles, hence you need some more background to even ask an intelligent questions.

A good engineering analysis (other than on a free internet discussion board where all you get is often misinformed opinion) would run you a few grand at least.

e.g. Wylen and Sonntag, Wiley, "Fundementals of classical thermodynamics" or similar whould be in your local library.


My own worthless internet opinion (can provide the calculations for $700, heh, heh) is that your slab scheme is useless, akin to 2nd order prepetural motion machine.

I'm not sure 'cause of all the big words, but I think Junkdog said- it won't work.
I may have mentioned that, but now we have an "expert" to support my opinion (perhaps I'm not one of the often misinformed).
MY, he uses big words!......
What a bunch of blather.

Posted By GrapeStreet on 27 Mar 2011 09:53 AM
Apologies folks. Seems I'm a bit too abstract for the engineering forum. I mean only that I wish to take the philosophy of "use what you got to do what you can" from my podunk farm influences, and advance them with analytic discussion on open forums with experts in the field, hopefully gaining insight and resources that will broaden my intellectual horizons and maybe, eventually, leading to the materialization of these avant-garde ideas. "Hybridize the modalities" seemed more succinct. Apparently my poetic jargon was too esoteric. I'll tone it down, mmmkay? Appreciate the sarcasm though. All in good fun.

Avant-garde is not the same as any ole wild-a$$ed theory (Rockin' my farm lingo).
You don't know enough about how geo works to understand why your plan will not work.......or should I say work past the first few hours.
This is not an engineering forum. While I try not to criticize the honestly ignorant, it is difficult to not to bridle when someone who has no grasp of how the topic product works, hints that those who don't embrace the "analytic discussion"
are not cutting edge like themselves.....Hogwash

No worries. It won't work. Have a nice day. .... most experts he consulted, either at the local university or at agricultural schools, stated "this just flat-out will not work." "Don't believe anyone who tells you something won't work if no one has tried it before." "Every time an expert tells me it can't be done, I sit back, peel one of my oranges, and marvel at my ability to eat something that is impossible..." ...40 years doesn't change much.

I stated right-out that I'm ignorant of these things. I came here seeking help, instead I got not much more than ridicule. Be proud.

'much more than ridicule'

I'd hope the guidelines for self education were not construded as ridicule, and were offered as an avenue for Grapestreet to become grounded in some basics.

absquatulator

Heh, heh. That one's going to stick with me a while. :-)

This should be a more practical direction to look into. As you know, greenhouses often have excess heat during the day. Add thermal mass to store this heat for the night time. You can use active or passive techniques to move the heat around.

Good point.

Plants need water - consider storing solar thermal heat in a cistern integrated with the irrigation system, possibly below the slab, and you may be on to something.

If you can bury a cistern, couldn't ya bury ground loops?

Maybe I missed it but did op state where this greenhouse was to be built? Usually you wise guys always ask for degree days or heat loss calc's ;-) Maybe he doesn't need much heat.

I think OP wrote he's not allowed to disturb ground away from proposed green house; that drove me to mull alternatives.

Posted By FBBP on 02 Apr 2011 12:17 AM
Maybe I missed it but did op state where this greenhouse was to be built? Usually you wise guys always ask for degree days or heat loss calc's ;-) Maybe he doesn't need much heat.

Op asked for opinions on a particular system design.
If OP asked for ideas on how to heat the space, load would have been the first question.
J