I am new to this forum and amd seeking info. I have a quote in front of me for $27,000.00 to install a Climate Master 27 Geo-Thermal heat pump Model TTVO38, with two stage Ultra-Tech compressor and variable speed blower motor. The well driller will guarantee the wells in a contract and will redrill for nothing if wells are bad. They will be installing new insualted duct work, three didgital thermostats,an Arzel three (3) zone zoning system and the price includes their well driller. I have a 1 1/2 story cape cod built in the 50's They are guaranteeing me again in writing they will be able to heat and cool the house with this install. I am not sure how the 30% tax credit works so any info on that would be appreciated. This place has been in business for well over 30 years and have been working with Geo for about three years. What do you think? Pastor Jeff

As always our first question would be, what is the heat loss for the home? Next, where do you live?
Pricxe varies wildly with geography and material you are drilling through so we can't be as helpful with that, but we can suggest you look closely at references and we can help with equipment sizing.

We live in Souteastern, PA Reading area. As far as heat loss I am not sure. I am new to all this type of thing. Sorry for the ignorance. Jeff

It is a home that we are planning to remodel as we live there. So in 2 years it will have the proper insulation in it as we remodel each room. Jeff

How many square feet?

1400 square feet

I think you might want to look at a strategy of simultaneous envelope improvements and see if you can get the load down to a 2 ton unit. Also, a contributer here, "Water Pirate" may be good to reach if you are in his AO.

Help me out with the phrase "to look at a strategy of simultaneous envelope improvements? Again, excuse my ignorance. I have an idea of what you mean but would like for you to flesh it out for me.

It means to try and improve the insulation and air sealing of the exterior walls and roof/attic/kneewalls, and try to get the heating/cooling requirements down to only a 2 ton unit, which will cost less to install and less to buy. Cape Cods (I had one) are notoriously awkward to insulate well. Depending on the age of the home, you might have cinderblock walls, plaster over lath, etc. It's difficult to get more insulation into the walls. If the upstairs is finished, you may have little actual attic space, and poorly insulated knee walls. Do some google searches for "Insulating Cape Cod". Lots of people are trying different ways.

You could also have a blower door test done to find leaks. This is usually part of an energy audit that can tell you where your biggest heat losses are.

I realize you said earlier that you're going to try and improve one room at a time, which is great, but some initial "outside shell" improvements could help a great deal.

That's a great quote for everything, though, if it includes the drilling and all the duct work. Who's your contractor?

You might want to post the wording on the "guarantees". A system that runs on aux heat 50% of the time will "heat your house" - but you are paying for much better than that. Ideal would be some guarantee regarding average COP (efficiency) (with some limits on the load). But most installers can't even measure it. So with likely fairly worthless guarantees, you might be better off posting the technical details here to get verification that it isn't a "50% aux heat" design. With 3 independent zones, make sure they use 3x duct sizing - or your efficiency will decline.

Counter argument - a 50% aux heat design might be just what you need if the house will be upgraded soon with better insulation and air sealing.

I am not sure how the 30% tax credit works so any info on that would be appreciated

A tax credit comes directly off your income taxes that would otherwise be due. For example, 30% of $27,000 is $8,100. Your tax bill would be reduced by $8,100, assuming you owed at least that much. You can consider it a reduction in what you will ultimately pay for the system. You have to pay the installer the full amount upfront, but, assuming your system qualifies, you get it back when your income taxes are filed.

$27,000 seems like an awfully large amount of money to pay to heat a 1400 sf home. Did they show you any alternatives and the relative costs thereof? Did you get any other competitive bids for the work?

Cape Cods may be difficult to insulate, but anything that is stacked (cape, colonial, trilevel) minimizes loss over head which makes it easier to heat than a similarly sized ranch.
Bidder should have performed a manual J heat loss/gain calculation, take-in total of previous years fuel consumption, or in some other way identified btu requirement to heat your home. I would not be suprised if a southern Penn cape with beefed up insulation, couldn't get heating requirements down in the 30kbtu range and cooling in the 2 ton neighborhood.
With closest major city and amount and type of fuel used last year, we can ball park your load remotely. Be sure to add thermostat set point, number of people in the home and what shares your heating fuel (i.e. hot water, cooking appliances, clothes dryer etc.).

Asking someone to guarantee a COP is like asking them to guarantee the weather- ain't gonna happen, but they should do an operating cost model for you based on a twenty year weather average that will give you an idea of savings and an average COP (which will be about 3.5 to 4 incidentally regardless of brand, type or number of stages if designed correctly).

>..like asking them to guarantee the weather- ain't gonna happen. ... model ...that will give you an idea...

Companies guarantee the weather all the time - tornado insurance, flood insurance, etc. But if you put conditions on load, then the weather aspect is removed anyway. For example, a 1 year builder guarantee of:

This house may or may not fall down - I'll show you some paperwork and imply things, but no promises (unreasonable)
This house won't fall down as long as winds are less than 100 mph and no earthquakes (reasonable).
This house won't fall down period (builder is getting into the insurance business and needs to charge extra).
I have no way of testing whether the house has fallen down or not (stupid builder).

Only pick option 1 if you or your consultant thoroughly understand design and construction.

Umm.......companies insure against weather conditions, but do not guarantee them.

If you want a guaranteed COP given a certain set of conditions (outdoor air temp, heat loss, EWT, EAT, set point etc.) that is easy but of little value. Average COP means so much more for instance than the peak efficiencies achieved in a lab with perfect conditions.

So the legaleaze would be: AMI contracting guarantees a COP of X providing set point is X, entering water temp is X, entering air temp is X, out door temp is X etc. I would try to educate a customer beyond this request, but if it were a deal breaker, I could easily write such a guaranty without consequence. Though I might just presume the request came from a crack-pot best left to the next contractor.

Insurance synonyms: guarantee, indemnification, warrant, warranty, ...

"COP will be a minimum of 3.0 as long as load is less than y btu over the previous z period" sounds simple enough to me. But hey, if you get customers to agree to option #1, go for it.

clever use of your thesarus however in your own example damage from the weather is what is insured, it is not gauranteed that you will have a tornado.

Your COP warranty is conditional as well as mine and difficult to enforce, at least it recognizes contributors that operator can provide that might impact performance.

I would make it a priority to drive the load down to 2T. Reading is a failry mild climate and 1400 SF is a small house.

Tearing into walls to add insulation is likely low on the quick payback list. Blower door directed air leak reduction is likely the lowest hanging fruit, then additional attic insulation. Look into applying sprayfoam to the underside of the roof - if feasible and verified by blower door testing, that alone may cut load to 2T.

New windows may not have good payback, but if they are slated to be replaced anyway, ensure proper fenestration coefficients

2T system should be much cheaper up fron than 3T, 2T will likely be closer to cooling load, providing more comfort at lower cost.

Lastly, don't be afraid to meet cold snap load with some heat strip operation.

If some or all of this is a mystery, seek a local energy auditor with good references. He / she can perform the tests and load calc and walk you through some options. Site unseen, I very much doubt a 3T is remotely near the right answer given all the variables.

Meanwhile, it is fun to watch J & J having at it with dueling thesauri...check back often for updates!