I have been advised by my service company that my waterfurnace is a lemon.  2 coils replaced, 2 freon leaks, and a bottom compressor unit that looks more than twice its age.  I am open to all suggestions, and I am being open minded, but am also being advised that my machine is a lemon and that I should be requesting a new unit from the manufacturer.  thoughts from anyone?  thanks!

Posted By freonleak on 06 Jan 2012 02:49 PM
... been advised by ... service company that my waterfurnace is a lemon.  2 coils replaced, 2 freon leaks, and a bottom compressor unit that looks more than twice its age.  ...

I think it's possible that your problems are all due to two failed evaporator coils - the coil develops a crack, freon leaks at a slow enough rate such that it's not noticeable without twice a year maintenance checks or without specific monitoring, and the compressor then eventually reaches such a high operating temperature such that it shuts down or fails too.  Depending on when your WaterFurnace unit was installed, and what model it is, it's entirely possible that you could go through 2 coils so far.  With the industry the past few years claiming it has an evaporator coil failure problem (and not specifically aimed at WF or any other company) it's possible, particularly depending on the air tightness of your home, and whether or not you have a 'latest generation' coil, that you've still got another coil failure coming.

My recommendations include (not necessarily in priority order):

(1) Contact WF Corporate customer assistance and ask for advice.

(2) Determine if your last coil replacement was with a new generation coil that WF came out with at approximately March 2010 - your service company and/or WF directly should be able to exactly determine if this is the case as there's an available identification number on the coil.

(4) Review whatever warranty details you have with your installer, service company (if separate from installer) and WF.  Affirm everyone is of the same understanding (particularly affirming that you actually own a WF warrantied unit and not an OEM unit that your installer incorrectly claimed is WF warrantied).

(5) Contact WF's Territory Manager for assistance - some are willing to be very helpful to the end customer to facilitate resolution of possible lingering problems (TMs are listed at the bottom of WF's Dealer Locator on-line screen)

(6) Find out if a 3rd party 'add-on' warranty is available and if it's cost effective.

(7) Implement twice per year maintenance checks to possibly, in addition to standard benefits, catch the coil problem at an earlier stage and thus avoid compressor burn-out.

(8) If you're DIY handy, install a pretty simple monitoring system that will specifically tell you right away when you start having a compressor problem (i.e. due to a slowly leaking coil) (about a $600 expense, though, unfortunately).


All are just ideas - hope these help.

Best regards,

Bill

Thanks Bill.

Unfortunately, the coil problems were years ago and have not given me problems since their replacement. The current issues are freon leaks in the copper piping in the bottom compressor unit. This causes cool air to blow (with low freon levels) and reduces me to using AUX HEAT.

There seems to be no cause for the corrosion other than the freon leaking and corroding the pipes in the cabinet of the compressor unit. But the tech this morning said the piping in the compressor unit looked "horrible."

What time table are we talking here?
Generally speaking a "lemon" doesn't have years between failures.
As often as not frequent failures are caused by the repairman.
j

freonleak, We have read your comments and will be more than happy to look into your inquiry further. Please provide your model number, serial number, and the name of the contractor you area working with. If you do not wish to post your information publicly, please feel free to send us a private message. WaterFurnace International, Inc.

I am certtainly beginning to think I have a lemon.

Last year my system fauilted more times than I could count. The dealer, a GeoPro dealer (which seems to be something special but it simply marketing because my Geo Pro dealer hasn't fixed the problem) has replaced all of the thermostats, the zone control, boards, and others.

This year -- same problem. Second stage comes on, system faults. Heating capability goes to zoro and we're forced to use emergency heat.

How would a "Freon" leak degrade compressor refrigerant lines?

Postings like this do not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about any product - much less a very expensive product.

Posted By Alton on 23 Jan 2012 08:17 AM
Postings like this do not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about any product - much less a very expensive product.

No, but again the complaints are always louder than praise. With millions of units out there, someone is going to have trouble. With countless installers, some will not be good. This latest complaint sites poor installation as a culprit but blames WF.? I think we both know that if the Climatemaster installer stunk, CM would not be sending reps to fix it either. I don't think WF does its self any favors with their business model and endorsement of contractors, particularly when very little training is required to get said endorsement (we have contributors here that aren't in the business that know more about how a heat pump works than a WF dealer down the road). Yet I will never understand how people will make 5 figure investments without understanding of what they are getting. Once again, WF won't install or fix your heat pump, nor will Bosch or Climatemaster or for that mater Mr. Slim or Daiken....... If you don't research your dealer/installer you are asking for trouble.

With millions of units out there

Millions?  Has any GSHP manufacturer hit a million deliveries? How many GSHP's in US residential sector? I didn't think it was quite up to "millions", yet.

ICF,
Would it make you happier if I said hundreds of thousands? modern heat pumps have been around for 60 years. If you care to dispute the number (as opposed to point) I'll leave the research to you.

Would it make you happier if I said hundreds of thousands?

Is it more accurate?

no- millions is. welcome to demonstrate otherwise, but I'm done responding to your snarky distractions.

http://www.eia.gov/cneaf/solar.renewables/page/ghpsurvey/ghpssurvey.html

115,442 geothermal heatpumps were shipped in 2009, 5 % down from 2008.

Roughly 475,000 have shipped 2004-2009.

2010 numbers are not out yet.

There is certainly more than 1 million in operation.

no- millions is.

Is what? More accurate? As I asked before, does "millions" represent the number of GSHP units in US residential service, the total number of delivered units from a particular manufacturer or, what? Inquiring minds want to know. :-)

Ahhhhh....thank you for the link, DJ.

.......and doc let us not forget the ever popular 50's and 60's water cooled bar/restaurant airconditioners (open loop geo heat pump very popular in urban areas- Bard still makes one).

Posted By joe.ami on 25 Jan 2012 09:54 AM
.......and doc let us not forget the ever popular 50's and 60's water cooled bar/restaurant airconditioners (open loop geo heat pump very popular in urban areas- Bard still makes one).

No question. Your assumption was correct. There are just not much exact numbers available, nicely summarized. But even with the numbers we have, we easily get into the millions running. About 1 million since 2000. I just looked at one an Engineer built by himself in 1956. Still running. I was pretty amazed.

1956- nice. I once had an investment broker solicit bids because one of his clients withdrew money to replace the compressor on his 50 year old heat pump.
Some may argue they aren't investments, but even if they only save you $1,000/yr, thats a nice chunk when you multiply times 50!