I have a 2 year old Econar Ultra 7 ton hydronic geothermal heatpump (just heat)with a desuperheater. This is my 3rd winter with this unit. I have had no problem per-se so far with it. I just happened to be in the basement when I heard the compressor making funny noises. It was loader than normal almost "clacking". The LWT is normally 113 degrees F. The meter said 106 degrees F. The storage tank also read 106 degrees F. I heard sloshing in the compressor like it didn't have enough liquid on the return side. Clearly the compressor was much hotter all over than usual so it had been running non stop for a long time. I turned off the unit. I let it sit for a minute and restarted it. It ran fine after that. The LWT came back up to 113 degrees immediately after restarting. It ran fine for another 2 weeks. Then the same thing happened. Low LWT, a hot compressor and sloshing sound on the return side. I suspect one of two things. Either the expansion valve is freezing up restricting the the gas flow thereby starving the return line of liquid freon, or maybe I'm losing freon at an extremely slow rate. Or maybe the valve is stuck wide open and I'm just circulating liquid through the system. I put the AC guages on the high and low side. Hi side is 450-500 psi. Low side is 120 psi. I'm thinking the low side is high and should be around 50 psi. This would tell me that the expansion valve isn't closing enough. Any ideas? Sticking expansion valve?

Sloshing? Like their is air in the system, because if you are getting an airlock on any of the pumps that would cause the unit to have issues.
When you say LWT, you mean leaving water temperature on the radiant system or whatever is attached not the ground loop right? Or are you talking about the refrigerant circuit since you reference that at the bottom. You have to remember there are up to 4 circuits that could be the problem. Radiant loops themselves. Loop from unit to storage tank. Refrigerant circuit and ground loop.
Also you said you put gauges on the unit. In My Experience you are never supposed to put gauges on a geothermal without weighing in refrigerant since the gauges can hold a couple ounces and the units are so precisely charged but this is jut what WaterFurnace tells us.

LWT is the temp of the water leaving the heat pump and going to the storage tank. It's the storage loop temp. The temp of the water from the heatpump heat exchanger to the storagetank. The sloshing sounds like the the liquid R410a from the condenser back into the compressor. I doubt there is air in the line. It has been working fine for 2 years. It has never been touched since it arrived from the factory. I also noticed today that the compressor gave a loud "pop"and shook for an instant just before it went into the "no heat output" mode. Could this be moisture in the system that froze and then made its way to the compressor where it exploded or popped when compressed?

Insufficient liquid in the compressor "return"?

50 psig low side with R410a?

Compressed moisture???

Please carefully put down the gauge manifold and step SLOWLY away from the heatpump, then locate a telephone and summon a competent technician / contractor ASAP!

Sky, I use a Yellow Jacket ball valve between the high side manifold hose and the service port and try to disconnect manifold only while system is running in cooling mode. Prior to removing hoses from ports close ball valve and open both manifold valves. Any liquid (refrigerant and most oil) in manifold and hoses returns to system via low side. When I disconnect manifold hoses there is only a slight whiff of refrigerant gas released rather than the usual billowing cloud of vaporizing liquid.

Removing the ball valve from high service port looses only a couple grams of liquid ,much much less than a gauge hose filled with liquid.

Is that your best shot?

Do you think Engineer is kidding? Perhaps Clint Eastwood said it better... Man's got to know his limitations...

Bergy

LOL! Problem fixed.... burnt contacts on the compressor contactor causing low voltage to the compressor. ie. low compression- low heat, more noise. Replaced the relay, unit working fine now. If you aren't up to the challenge, don't reply to the question. Masters teach, wanabees ridicule!

My "best shot"?

Uhm...no, that was just a warm-up.

"...INCOMING!!!..."

"Sloshing" noises related to a contactor - perhaps the contactor got wet!

low voltage = "low compression" (whatever THAT is...) Compressors such as yours either run at a constant speed, or not at all. Reduced voltage alone does not "reduce" compression...if it did alone, we'd have had true variable capacity systems LONG ago.

Contactor weakness affects loop water temperatures...REALLY?!?!

After trying to explain the above remarks, kindly explain how a weak contactor relates to this excerpt from your original post:

" I suspect one of two things. Either the expansion valve is freezing up restricting the the gas flow thereby starving the return line of liquid freon, or maybe I'm losing freon at an extremely slow rate. Or maybe the valve is stuck wide open and I'm just circulating liquid through the system. I put the AC guages on the high and low side. Hi side is 450-500 psi. Low side is 120 psi. I'm thinking the low side is high and should be around 50 psi. This would tell me that the expansion valve isn't closing enough. Any ideas? Sticking expansion valve?"

An old IT diagnostic maxim applies to this thread...GIGO, short for Garbage In, Garbage Out.

The next time your contactor seems to be failing, check its Freon level...it may be down a quart...better safe than sorry!

P.S.: "Freon", invented in 1928, was completely banned in 1996, so I'm pretty sure there isn't any in your heat pump.

Posted By Jeff Sherman on 27 Oct 2012 12:29 PM
LOL! Problem fixed.... burnt contacts on the compressor contactor causing low voltage to the compressor. ie. low compression- low heat, more noise. Replaced the relay, unit working fine now. If you aren't up to the challenge, don't reply to the question. Masters teach, wanabees ridicule!

So you had burnt contacts on the compressor relay, and you put gauges on the unit, loosing an unknown amount of refrigerant? Gauges on the unit are your last resort, not your first. Does not impress me as a teaching master... Nor have I ever seen a compressor running hot because of a low voltage problem.

Posted By Jeff Sherman on 27 Oct 2012 12:29 PM
LOL! Problem fixed.... burnt contacts on the compressor contactor causing low voltage to the compressor. ie. low compression- low heat, more noise. Replaced the relay, unit working fine now. If you aren't up to the challenge, don't reply to the question. Masters teach, wanabees ridicule!

Good thing you've become a "Master" so quickly... now you will never again require assistance from the "Wannabe's"!

Bergy

I knew the comments would come.....LOL

Not a single one of you asked any additional questions. Your opinion means nothing at this point. You have all failed customer relations 101. I never said I was losing refrigerant. Never the less, the problem is fixed. You can go back you looking at yourself in the mirror. I regret ever posting here. No help what so ever!

So, how can we miss you if you won't go away?

So the refrigerant pressures are ok now since you have a new contactor?......Aye ye ye

Had you asked pertinent questions 2 years ago you likely wouldn't have an Econar.
Sorry.
Keep your fire extinguisher closer than your manifold gauges.

Gee...I asked the question 2 years ago and everyone said go Econar! Clearly any mechanical relay has a short life span. I already replaced the circulation pump relay months ago. Any relay passing 30+ amps through the contacts will burn the contacts. After all, a relay is a nothing more than a mini arc welder at high currents. It appears that the added contact resistance varies from time to time since the contacts are continuously being reduces to carbon. When the resistance was high the compressor ran slow, overheated and eventually shut down. The overheating was affecting the expansion valve. Once is got too hot, the valve was sticking open and just passing the gas in a loop not producing much heat. Once turned off and on again, the contacts would conduct better and the compressor would run at full HP and would work fine until the next time the compressor kicked in and the relay had high contact resistance again. Then, the same thing happens again. .............The relay left a carbon film from the arcing contacts below it. I could hear popping from the contacts as well (carbon clumps exploding) acting like under rated resistors. I disassembled the relay and there were no contacts left.
Actually, Econar was the first to produce a 7 ton hydronic unit that qualified for the E* tax rebate. I watched all brands for 2 year before buying the Econar. For the year it was made, it was rated the best. Water furnace wasn't even close nor was Hydron module or any of its subsidieries.
Hey Loopy! Maybe Obama can find you a real job come Tuesday, ya think!

Posted By Jeff Sherman on 02 Nov 2012 04:38 PM


mini arc welder

Enjoying factual errors and boorish posts...
Just asking here: Can you describe your electric source? (generator, utility power, ?)

What size breakers, wire size supply your unit?...


Good luck with your guy (gal if Green) next Tuesday.

Posted By Jeff Sherman on 02 Nov 2012 04:38 PM
Hey Loopy! Maybe Obama can find you a real job come Tuesday, ya think!

Wrong, as usual, Binky. This 47%-er doesn't need or want a job. Comfortably
retired on investment returns from the boom years of Clinton's administration,
(before either of Idiot W. Son's "business friendly" stockmarket meltdowns).

Heavily stocked-up on champagne jeroboams for Tuesday's blowout reelection;
almost as delightful as the inevitable river of teapatsy TearsOfImpotentRage™.

...schadenfreude ROCKS!

Looby

Well since ur a new member with 8 post can you direct us to ur 2 year old questions?