I'm considering switching my home to a GSHP. Specifically two Waterfurnace 7 series units.

As part of my due diligence, I started researching complaints against the company and its installers.

One major issue that scared me was the very, very high failure rate on their evaporator coils. Thousands of customers reporting leaks within 2 or 3 years of use due to corrosion caused by in-home particulates getting caught up in condensation on the coils and dissolving the copper.

Worst of all, while the parts were covered by the warranty, the labor reimbursement rates were often a fraction of what was charged by the contractors. Often causing thousands in out of pocket costs.

I know that in March of 2010, Waterfurnace started epoxy coating their coils to mitigate this, and recently has started offering aluminum coils for their 5 series.

As far as I can tell, the complaints have dwindled dramatically. Indeed, I can't find really any related to coip failures for units manufactured after 2011.

So... Am I right to worry?

This evaporator coil issue affected most if not all GSHP manufacturers since most if not all purchase the coils rather than manufacture them. The trend appears to be going to all aluminum evaporator coils. The 3 ton Climatemaster that I have is all aluminum.

Posted By arkie6 on 24 Aug 2017 11:45 AM
This evaporator coil issue affected most if not all GSHP manufacturers since most if not all purchase the coils rather than manufacture them. The trend appears to be going to all aluminum evaporator coils. The 3 ton Climatemaster that I have is all aluminum.

I was hesitant to make that claim as I hadn't done the research into anything but WaterFurnace, but a cursory search or two reveals plenty of other complains about other vendors. (Including those with no relationship with WaterFurnace.)

So, should I not consider a unit without an aluminum coil? Even the epoxy coated coils?

Is anybody aware of any data regarding coil failure rates (or reliability in general) for the various GHSP companies?

We are putting in 7 series since 2013. Not a single coil failure, or any failure. Aside from some sensor failures, which required the replacement of the failed sensor, and a couple thermostat issue, we had zero issues with the 140-150 7-series units installed.

We also accept reimbursement rates and do not charge our customers extra. That practice should be stopped. Yes, we up-charge units modestly to cover our overhead, and rare repair costs beyond the factory reimbursement. I hate to be nickeled and dimed, and shy away from doing it to our customers. But sometimes customers jump ship and go with a $150 cheaper offer, only to be nickeled and dimed later. Those are the perfect customers served by my competitors....

Posted By docjenser on 25 Aug 2017 05:22 AM
We are putting in 7 series since 2013. Not a single coil failure, or any failure. Aside from some sensor failures, which required the replacement of the failed sensor, and a couple thermostat issue, we had zero issues with the 140-150 7-series units installed.

That's great to hear. There are very few of these types of accounts online, as people don't take the time to post that their unit is working fine. They only post when they're pissed off.

Assuming the quote doesn't come back crazy, I'll probably pull the trigger.

Posted By RMD on 25 Aug 2017 12:47 PM There are very few of these types of accounts online, as people don't take the time to post that their unit is working fine. They only post when they're pissed off.

Apologies if referring to another forum is improper, but I will anyway! https://www.geoexchange.org/forum/forums/geothermal-heat-pump-testimonials.172/

I have 2 - 5 Series since 3/16 without any problems and very high efficiency.

Every manufacturer with which I have experience, whether air or water source heat pumps, went through or is still going through a period of air handler (AHU) coil failures.

By far and away, I estimate 90 - 95% of system replacement decisions (called "changeouts" in the trade) arise from AHU coil fails.

We have client systems (not geo) on their 3rd, and in one case, 4th coil furnished under mfg parts warranty

I'm amused by manufacturers crowing about 12 year or longer compressor warranties when in fact the most likely fail is the AHU coil.

I hope that WF Series 7 reliability record continues as the systems age.

I am amused when I read posts like this... For the $$$ spent installing and maintaining these geo systems, I can't imagine they make any financial sense. Seems like people focus on the better performance and ignore the other costs.

Icfbound - in my case, they definitely make sense. Cold climate, currently oil heat, no natural gas available.

My choices are somewhat limited, and a GSHP when combined with incentives and a no interest loan from the state will be immediately cash flow positive. Once the loan is paid in 7 years, I'll be in the plus $500/month on average.

Glad to hear it makes sense for you RMD. These systems just seem crazy expensive to me, they don’t seem to have a long lifetime, and people don’t often stay in their home for more than 10 years even when they are certain that they will. I can buy a lot of fuel for lot of years for the extra $$$ these systems cost over something more conventional. I can see how good incentives could offset that and I have never done a good ROI to see if they actually could make sense. It also seems like there are many posts about these systems having endless problems.

$500/month??????????? WOW!!!!!! That's insane!!!!!! My last house elect cost av. was $54/month for HVAC!!! It must cost a fortune to live up north! I'm in the SE....Charlotte.

I read that these heat pumps should last 25 + years.

robinnc - I've got a large home north of Boston. We paid $6k in oil and about $2.5k in electric (for cooling and the blower fans) over the last year. So I get pretty big numbers when you're talking about saving 50-70%.

In a forum like this you see a preselected crowd who might have problems with their systems, almost most of the time it is an installation/design issue. People who are happy with heir system don't come here, ,mostly people who seek help come here.

In pure money, compared to cheap natural gas, ROI might be very long. But that is not the fault of the technology. Compared to oil/propane/electric resistance heat, things pay back much quicker.

But things will change quickly, given the advantages of the systems, especially to the grid and to the (gas) distribution infra structure.

Once you figure out the costs of running gas pipelines to your home, and upgrading the grid for more a/c summer peak consumption, suddenly it is much cheaper to put in geo systems then building pipelines, or power plants or transformer substations.

All good points. In my case, it will cost about $6k to bring in the gas line. I'm weighing all my options. Even just upgrading my oil furnaces. So far, GSHP is a hard sell from an ROI perspective. I'm also focusing a lot on determining why my energy usage is so high. It's roughly 60% more than it should be for the age of my home, size, and location.

Posted By icfbound on 27 Aug 2017 10:24 PM
I am amused when I read posts like this... For the $$$ spent installing and maintaining these geo systems, I can't imagine they make any financial sense.

True, GSHP do have installation costs, higher than conventional systems. Maintenance costs? I spend about $35/year on filters for my closed loop system, nothing else.

Yeah...waaaaaay higher. You will spend at least 50% of what you paid to install system by time it is 15 years old to keep it operating that long. You are either a liar or fool to say NOT.

GO systems are 'insanely' overpriced. They charge insane prices because IMO because it's something 'new' and saves elect each month since you get everything from the earth. From all my research, the only thing different is burring the pipes which they charge 2x as much for the system!!!!!!....or more.... That's just ripping people off!!!! Digging a few trenches is NOT that expensive!  They take advantage on how much elect you save. It's business going the wrong way.........greed..........

Posted By robinnc on 03 Sep 2017 06:05 AM
GO systems are 'insanely' overpriced. They charge insane prices because IMO because it's something 'new' and saves elect each month since you get everything from the earth. From all my research, the only thing different is burring the pipes which they charge 2x as much for the system!!!!!!....or more.... That's just ripping people off!!!! Digging a few trenches is NOT that expensive!  They take advantage on how much elect you save. It's business going the wrong way.........greed..........

You got to do better research! We are charging customers between 25-30K per geo system, with monitoring and remote control, A/C, heating and hot water. Have you ever checked how many man hours it takes to install a geo system, versus a gas furnace/A/C?