Posted By icfbound on 03 Sep 2017 03:19 AM
Yeah...waaaaaay higher. You will spend at least 50% of what you paid to install system by time it is 15 years old to keep it operating that long. You are either a liar or fool to say NOT.

The first 10 years are warranty anyway, so the customer does not have any costs. Year 11-15 is the customers responsibility, but "at least 50% of what you paid" appears to be highly incorrect. I don't have a single customer who did pay "at least 50%" of the original installation costs in year 11-15. Any numerical backup for your claims?

No I pulled it out my arse like most of the bullshit you write cause you sell this risky nightmare shit...NOT. 50% additional 15-year maintenance cost is from the recent Consumer Report article. There is no shortage of outrageous GSHP problems and expense stories all over the internet. Warranty is total scam. Here is a Waterfurnace story that started at $100K and ended up costing $750K.

https://waterfurnace.pissedconsumer.com/geothermal-hvac-nightmare-20130804435949.html?big&utm_expid=.a-dVQdlURP-Cb3xoIsdnSQ.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

Posted By icfbound on 05 Sep 2017 04:05 PM
No I pulled it out my arse like most of the bullshit you write cause you sell this risky nightmare shit...NOT. 50% additional 15-year maintenance cost is from the recent Consumer Report article. There is no shortage of outrageous GSHP problems and expense stories all over the internet. Warranty is total scam. Here is a Waterfurnace story that started at $100K and ended up costing $750K.

https://waterfurnace.pissedconsumer.com/geothermal-hvac-nightmare-20130804435949.html?big&utm_expid=.a-dVQdlURP-Cb3xoIsdnSQ.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

You certainly managed to be more elaborate than expected...Since you follow the internet and pissedconsumer.com to be the basis of your claim, the questions is again if you have any legit data to back up your claims and accusations. Indeed we install and design geo system (aka we "sell the risky nightmare shit"). Do you refer to https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/06/geothermal-systems-an-old-technology-gets-a-second-look/index.htm as the latest consumer report article? Little hint: In this forum, your credibility goes up significantly indirect proportionally with the amount of profanity you use.

I don't have a Waterfurnace system, I have a ClimateMaster, but I felt compelled to reply to this thread. We've had our system for 3 yrs and it's been terrific. The air conditioning is the most efficient we've ever had, saving us lots of $$ in the summer, and the heating has been great too. I had this installed b/c natural gas wasn't available in my area, and I was paying $4/gal for oil at the time (of course the price has dropped since then). I needed a new AC anyway and my oil burner needed replacement as well, so I decided on geothermal. I might add that I'm a geologist! I do know about the constant 55F groundwater temp year round in my region, so thought this would be a no-brainer! It has been, and my costs for heating and cooling have dropped significantly since installation. Now my electric company (PECO) tells me that we're spending approx. $500/yr more for electricity (to run the whole house) than the average home in my neighborhood (similar houses), but they don't know that we're not buying oil for heating; we're using electricity and the earth! So we're saving close to $3000 (for oil) each heating season! I'm sure there are installers who don't know what they're doing, and the systems do not achieve the efficiency promised, but mine is very good, and I'm happy to be off oil.

Glad you are happy at the 3 year point. Let us know how you are doing after 10 years and 15 years. We currently have a class action against ClimateMaster and expect to have one against Waterfurnace soon. Contact Schlicter Bugard & Denton should you have problems going forward. However I can tell you that getting $$$ out of these scumbag designers and installers is next to impossible because they all seem to disappear like a fart in the wind after about 5 years of operating.

I'd like to know more about the class action against ClimateMaster. Can you elaborate in this thread?

Posted By icfbound on 06 Sep 2017 03:59 PM
Glad you are happy at the 3 year point. Let us know how you are doing after 10 years and 15 years. We currently have a class action against ClimateMaster and expect to have one against Waterfurnace soon. Contact Schlicter Bugard & Denton should you have problems going forward. However I can tell you that getting $$$ out of these scumbag designers and installers is next to impossible because they all seem to disappear like a fart in the wind after about 5 years of operating.

You are known for your rants against geothermal, and you don't shine away from profanity while lacking knowledge and understanding. Yes, there is a law firm trying to figure out if they can make some money to get a class action lawsuit going for TXV failures. A known issue Climatemaster had. We had customers too with defective units, and simply exchanged them at no cost to the customer. The people go out of business after 5 years are the ones who (1) Did not charge enough for their work to stay in business and/or (2) delivered a bad product and bad service. There are many installers who are in business longterm, which is impossible without happy customers and good products. No one forces you to own a geo system, or pay a certain amount for it to get a high quality product/installer/designer. You seem to be unwilling to appreciate quality work, and you don't seem to be unwilling to pay for quality work. That is your call.

One thing I've noticed is that while there are examples of vendor specific issues - such as the TXV failures - as well as some more systemic and widespread issues - such as the coil corrosion on many heat exchanges across many vendors - generally the biggest factor in the success or failure of an HVAC install is the installer. It's pretty complicated to get these systems right, and many HVAC companies aren't up to the task. They're used to fairly fool proof installs of big, oversized furnaces and A/C compressors where the tolerance for errors is pretty high.



That's one big reason why, when you ask for references, you ignore ones that aren't using a similar system.

Posted By docjenser on 06 Sep 2017 05:18 AM

Posted By icfbound on 05 Sep 2017 04:05 PM
No I pulled it out my arse like most of the bullshit you write cause you sell this risky nightmare shit...NOT. 50% additional 15-year maintenance cost is from the recent Consumer Report article. There is no shortage of outrageous GSHP problems and expense stories all over the internet. Warranty is total scam. Here is a Waterfurnace story that started at $100K and ended up costing $750K.

https://waterfurnace.pissedconsumer.com/geothermal-hvac-nightmare-20130804435949.html?big&utm_expid=.a-dVQdlURP-Cb3xoIsdnSQ.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

You certainly managed to be more elaborate than expected...Since you follow the internet and pissedconsumer.com to be the basis of your claim, the questions is again if you have any legit data to back up your claims and accusations. Indeed we install and design geo system (aka we "sell the risky nightmare shit"). Do you refer to https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/06/geothermal-systems-an-old-technology-gets-a-second-look/index.htm as the latest consumer report article? Little hint: In this forum, your credibility goes up significantly indirect proportionally with the amount of profanity you use.

I have a WaterFurnace system that I am very happy with. What has happened to you to make you so cynical?

I have had a Climatemaster Tranquility 30 for 2 years a package unit and installed it myself as it was a fairly straight forward swap out for previous unit and I built an enclosure for it. I have had zero problems since installation.

I had also had a Climate Master that I had zero problems with and a Water Furnace that the compressor went on. Both were bought together 10 years ago.