See:

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/can-non-pipeline-alternatives-curb-new-yorks-rising-natural-gas-demand#gs.168CVI8

"The proposal also includes provisions to electrify space heating in selected neighborhoods. Plans call for the installation of ground-source heat pumps at up to 8,800 single-family homes in Westchester County and air-source heat pumps at up to 1,000 small- and mid-sized multi-family buildings in the Bronx that use fuel oil for heat.

Incentives to install heat pumps would also be provided to an additional 1,000 small commercial and large residential buildings in the region."

Indeed.

It really does not make any sense to invest into the expansion of natural gas distribution infrastructure, when you are mandated to reduce emission by 80% by 2050 across al sectors. Given that gas furnaces have a I've expectancy of around 20 years, they have to phase them out starting 2030 at the latest, meaning in 12 years the last fossil fuel burner should be installed.

Gas pipelines are financed with an 80 year bond, who is gonna pay for that if you start to reduce the ratepayers in 12 years, and have a mandate to eliminate them in 32 years?

Posted By docjenser on 26 Oct 2018 09:45 PM
Indeed.

It really does not make any sense to invest into the expansion of natural gas distribution infrastructure, when you are mandated to reduce emission by 80% by 2050 across al sectors. Given that gas furnaces have a I've expectancy of around 20 years, they have to phase them out starting 2030 at the latest, meaning in 12 years the last fossil fuel burner should be installed.

Gas pipelines are financed with an 80 year bond, who is gonna pay for that if you start to reduce the ratepayers in 12 years, and have a mandate to eliminate them in 32 years?

EXACTLY!

The exploding house fiasco in Andover & Lawrence Massachusetts several weeks ago has the utility scrambling to replace a bunch of antique distribution grid plumbing, plumbing that's bound to become a stranded asset. The state Attorney General has been pushing them to educate and even fund conversion to heat pumps, but the older housing stock isn't efficient enough for heat pumps to work without overloading the similarly decrepit electrical grid distribution (or even the home panels, many of which are 50A 120V junk from the 1940s.)

In the meantime most of those people are still out of heat, and overnight temps have dropped below the freezing mark this week...

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/ma-natural-gas-explosions-highlight-tension-between-recovery-and-efficiency#gs.xZraoNo

Working on this stuff when it's NOT in panic mode would lead to better use of capital (including state subsidy capital).

ditto......Dana....

NYS has

1) Banned fracking, making gas exploration uneconomical.
2) A mandate to phase out gas by 2050, meaning the last gas furnace should go in by 2030.
3) Has not approved an expansion of the gas infrastructure, The last approval was for Tompkins county in 2014 (I think) and then the county itself put a moratorium on building it. Now the PSC has approved a non pipeline alternative.

Non pipeline alternatives are now being implemented instead of investing in the expansion or repair of existing infrastructure. They realized that heat pumps are better and cheaper alternatives compared to gas lines. In addition, you have a site emission free heating solution.

If NYS is trying to shift everyone from gas to electric, what are they doing to increase the supply of electricity?

and in England they are just starting to do fracking !!!
scotland has so many wind turbines that any more an it will take off
so many that when winds are strong across whole country they have to turn a lot of them off-
and the idiot civil servants /politicians that made the deal for 20 years with the windfarm men that still pay for energy that would have been made as if they were turned on -


maybe thats the SNP,s plan to get independence from the uk ? more turbines make Scotland become airborne and land somewhere else in the EU
LOL

Posted By arkie6 on 27 Oct 2018 10:09 PM
If NYS is trying to shift everyone from gas to electric, what are they doing to increase the supply of electricity?

has a large oversupply, the Grid capacity is currently sized for A/C use in the summer. Thus they think that they have enough water capacity available, something I doubt as well. They bet on improving energy efficiency and a build up of renewable capacity, together with increasing storage capacity of the Grid. Numbers don't all line up, but it is also touch to predict the energy storage, mix and demand 30 years from now. The mandate is 80% reduction of emissions by 2050 across all sectors. The only technology available is electrification, since it is the only technology which can be decarbonized.

scott......why doesn't scotland sell the excess elect. to neighboring countries?  I can't believe the elect. companies don't do this to make more money.

someone would have to pay to make main grid power lines bigger and all these wind farms are always placed close to main grid lines. the wind farms never pay to make new main grid lines, most in scotland are on shore

i think they know fine that when the 20 year contracts run out they will not be viable .
we should be doing more hydro and tidal power

Off shore wind is the most resilient way of renewable power compared to on shore wind and solar. Oversizing is needed to ensure covering areas and timing when not enough wind is around.

combine off shore wind +tidal with hydro and pumped storage and then your getting close ,then you can store the power in the dam and use hydro when no wind

Posted By scottishjohn on 31 Oct 2018 09:55 AM
combine off shore wind +tidal with hydro and pumped storage and then your getting close ,then you can store the power in the dam and use hydro when no wind

Agreed. The more technologies you have in the mix, the more coverage you have under certain scenarios. Coming back to the original post, other utilities are coming forward (as ordered by the public service commission) with non pipeline alternatives (NPAs) to ensure that not more ratepayer money is wasted by investing into an infrastructure which, by NYS mandate, has to be abandoned in the relatively near future. Essentially in NYS, the entire gas distribution network has to be obsolete by 2050, that is 32 years from now. By 2030, 12 years from now, the last gas furnace can be installed, due to its 20 year life expectancy. When more people go off gas, lesser and lesser people will have to shoulder the cost of the gas distribution system, meaning prices will increase significantly for consumers. Also meaning that more and more will be driven off gas. It is called the death spiral for the gas distribution system. Now, the other term is "stranded assets" which describes the gas lines, which are financed typically by an 80 year bond, but will not generate much revenue (if any) in 32 years from now. Interesting times, for sure.