BASEMENT IS COLD
Last Post 14 Apr 2008 04:33 PM by slenzen. 9 Replies.
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LightningUser is Offline
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07 Apr 2008 07:22 PM
I am going to remodel my basement and take all the wood paneling off the walls and put Drywall on the walls and celling.

There is one big problem with my basement and it is when the up steers is warm the basement is warm for a little bit than it gets cold down there. Yes I do have heat ducts that heat the basement, I can not think why it get cold down there.

I plan to put insulation there where the house and basement joins together, will that help?

I live in Northwest Ohio.

There must be a way to keep the basement warm in the Winter.

Now while I am on this subject what would be the best way to finish the basement?
It is a block basement built in 1973.

I need some expert answers on this so I can do it the right way.
All the help that you gave me will mean allot.
vhehnUser is Offline
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07 Apr 2008 07:39 PM
its probably not insulated. the walls are in touch with the earth and that sucks the heat out. use 1or2 inches of foam board tight against the wall then frame the walls against that. do not use fiberglass in a basement. if you dont have a water problem you can use carpet on the floor to eliminate that cold floor feeling.
congacoxUser is Offline
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07 Apr 2008 09:08 PM
Just a few questions:

How high from the floor to bottom of joists?

Do you have a budget in mind? Do you want warmth at almost any cost, most bang for X number of dollars...

What are your plans for the basement after you finish it?

Anything else you can think of.

sc

slenzenUser is Offline
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08 Apr 2008 12:20 AM
I used spray foam insulation and put elect radiant head on my basement concrete floors then tiled. It's perfect in MN winters.
LightningUser is Offline
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08 Apr 2008 04:58 PM
Posted By congacox on 04/07/2008 9:08 PM
Just a few questions:

How high from the floor to bottom of joists?

8"  inch

7 feet in the basement


Do you have a budget in mind? Do you want warmth at almost any cost, most bang for X number of dollars...

No but the only thing I want is to keep it warm in the basement.  
Yes That is what I am after warmth is  number one item that I am after.



What are your plans for the basement after you finish it?

Entrainment and just enjoy yourself

Anything else you can think of.

What would be the best way to tackle this project using what type of Drywall?
How thick of Drywall?  Regular or Mold resistant?

sc



DickRussellUser is Offline
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09 Apr 2008 08:22 AM
"There is one big problem with my basement and it is when the up steers is warm the basement is warm for a little bit than it gets cold down there. Yes I do have heat ducts that heat the basement, I can not think why it get cold down there."

Perhaps you could explain this more. If what I read into the statement is correct, then the basement starts out warm, then cools off as the heating system comes on when the thermostat upstairs calls for heat. If this is so, then the first thing that comes to mind is that combustion air for the heating system is being drawn in from outside through leaks at the sill, uncaulked wire openings to the outside, past a leaky bulkhead door, etc.

If this is the case, then just insulating the walls may not result in as much improvement as you would expect.
JellyUser is Offline
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10 Apr 2008 06:10 AM
Posted By slenzen on 04/08/2008 12:20 AM
I used spray foam insulation and put elect radiant head on my basement concrete floors then tiled. It's perfect in MN winters.
slenzen, what elec radiant system did you use?

LightningUser is Offline
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10 Apr 2008 04:54 PM

Posted By DickRussell on 04/09/2008 8:22 AM
"There is one big problem with my basement and it is when the up steers is warm the basement is warm for a little bit than it gets cold down there. Yes I do have heat ducts that heat the basement, I can not think why it get cold down there."

Perhaps you could explain this more. If what I read into the statement is correct, then the basement starts out warm, then cools off as the heating system comes on when the thermostat upstairs calls for heat. If this is so, then the first thing that comes to mind is that combustion air for the heating system is being drawn in from outside through leaks at the sill, uncaulked wire openings to the outside, past a leaky bulkhead door, etc.


When the heat system calls for heat it will heat the upstairs and the basement also, but as soon as the thermostat kick off the basement will cool off at a faster rate than the upstairs. It get where you need a coat to stay warm in the basement.


There must be something that can be done to keep it warm in the basement?


I do not want Styrofoam on the walls because it can not breath. There must be away to insulate it to keep the heat there.

Would insulating the sail help? Would you put faum spray on the sail?

I can tell you one thing if you put your hand up above the ceiling you can feel cold air.



If this is the case, then just insulating the walls may not result in as much improvement as you would expect.



DickRussellUser is Offline
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11 Apr 2008 08:39 AM

OK, that's a clearer picture now. Mind you, we're diagnosing without the benefit of seeing it close up, so any suggestions made here may or may not address the problems properly. You have to decide. However....

It does sound like your problems are two-fold. As mentioned before, the basement walls and floor are losing a lot of heat to the ground. The foundation wall exposed to the air and the first foot below grade account for most of the total wall heat loss. The feel of cold air near the ceiling suggests that a major source of the discomfort (& heat loss) is air infiltration at the sill. My guess is that there is considerable stack effect in your house. On a really cold day, the outside air may be 15% heavier than the inside air. Cold air is pressing in down low and pushing lighter warm air up and out through cracks and miscellaneous openings into the attic, through electrical outlets, past poorly installed windows, etc. In winter, the inside air will become dry as a bone. Is this right?

Anyway, part of the solution is to seal off the leaks at the sill, both where the sill sits on the foundation and where the rim band around the joists sit on the sill. This is best done by a contractor with closed cell foam. You don't want to use fiberglass batts or other porous material there, because you'll have a possible moisture condensation problem in places, and that stuff won't stop air leakage. If you want to do this yourself, you can get sheet closed cell foam (XPS, or extruded styrofoam. Use a 2" thick piece or two layers of 1". Cut it for each bay, about a 1/4" narrower than the space, tack it into place up against the rim and blocked to get a small space all around the edges. After all the bays are covered with the sheet stuff, use cans of foam sealant (eg. Great Stuff), and go around all the gaps to seal the sheets into place.

You also ought to get up into the attic, lift up insulation where there are wire or light openings in the ceiling, and seal up the myriad cracks you'll find. Put sealing strips under all the electrical outlet cover plates, too. Hardware stores carry this stuff.

All this sealing of the house will radically reduce the air infiltration, make the house less drafty and cold, and cut down the heating bill. Then you can think about applying insulation to the foundation walls. Look at BuildingScience.com's web site. They have a lot of practical info on insulating basements. Plenty of good info on other sites as well.

Don't use fiberglass or other pourous batt insulation up against the basement walls. You're asking for mold and musty smell if you do that. Moisture diffuses through the wall from the ground. What you might do is apply 1" sheets of XPS foam to the concrete walls, cementing them in place with something like PL300 adhesive. You don't want an air space behind the foam sheet, unless you can totally seal the gaps around to absolutely prevent humid summer air from getting behind the foam and condensing on the cold cement wall. You also don't want a foil-faced foam or a polyethylene film over the sheet foam. You want the foam to be able to let moisture dry very slowly to the interior of the house. Of course, if you apply foam sheets, it must be covered with drywall for fire protection reasons. That's a matter of code. Leave a small gap between the drywall and the floor, so it won't wick moisture up from the slab.

You mentioned not wanting to use styrofoam on the walls, for breathing reasons. A 1" XPS layer is a vapor retarder, but not a vapor barrier. It will breathe, but at a very low rate. Various other assemblies for basement walls are described out there. Some work better than others, an some are clearly situation-dependent. You have to choose what will work best for you. It's all about movement of heat and water vapor.

There's plenty of material on all this on the internet. I've just scratched the surface for you.

slenzenUser is Offline
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14 Apr 2008 04:33 PM
Jellie,

I used Flextherm heat cable. I did about 1000 sq foot area so the mat type electric heat was too expensive. A DIY project for me except for the electrical hookup. Glued down guide strips, laid out cable, had it pretested by electrician, then covered it w/ self leveling cement, tiled over it. It is truly perfect warm and cozy on a cold winter day in MN. I'd look into membranes that isolate the cable heat from the slab too, something I didnt do. Elect bill was $20-30 more in winter over other non heat/cool months.

basement was spray polyfoam sealed.
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